At what point is it necessary to PI meth?
- Thread starter Tuppidsay
- Start date
That's what I'm currently using. I have Fuel it PI with AIC6 and Hobbs switch to trigger meth pump.
For those running the JB4 PI controller for PI Meth, the orange output runs to a relay to trigger your 2nd pump. So the JB4 is controlling not only the injector pulsewidth but also when the pump turns on. If running a setup like this we suggest adding a fuel pressure sensor to the fuel rail to feed that information in to the JB4 as well so it can properly calculate injection volume and provide a level of flow detection safety for progressive mapping.
Hey, @Terry@BMS I'll be doing the same set up and may be if you make a guide how to connect and wire everything it will be a big help for everybody, who wants to retain the JB4 and take advantage of all safety features. So far haven't find such a guide...
Man I don't know how I missed this thread. I have an Aquamist kit that I haven't set up yet and have contemplated going direct port. I have the MMP Pi plate already and was thinking 0.4mm jets for my single turbo at 30 psi. Would that sizing be right?
Sure, we can augment the JB4 PI directions with setup for JB4 PI WMI. It's all basically the same. The only variance is adding in an extra pressure sensor to the fuel rail. But the fuel rail has to be setup to accept one (e.g. a port to screw it in), and then sensor needs 5v and ground, and for N54 engines feed the output wire in to JB4 #15. I know FuelIT is working on including it with their WMI PI kit.
Just think about this. The air in the CP is anywhere up to 150F. The temp in the cylinder following the combustion just a split second ago is probably around 500F. The high temp and massive turbulence will easily evaporate the water and methanol.
I built my own port meth injection in Dec 2016. I first ran it on stock turbos and now i run the same system with bigger nozzles on full GCs. I've run 27 psi. The system works great but Terry is correct that proper fuel pressure monitoring and injector metering from this will be the best way to control this setup. The only method I would prefer would be full E85 and the double barrel shotgun option which allows pure direct injection. However reliability would be my concern.
I know, old thread but I am wondering : My 1st goal is 600whp
I currently have fuel-it stage 2 bucket-less ( have stage 3 waiting to go in. ) and I have PI Meth w/ a CP injector as well.
All other factors aside like turbos and FBO ect. Should this fueling setup be able to handle 600whp. If yes, is that a yes WITH or WITHOUT the dual walbro Lpfp installed?
Thanks alot.
I currently have fuel-it stage 2 bucket-less ( have stage 3 waiting to go in. ) and I have PI Meth w/ a CP injector as well.
All other factors aside like turbos and FBO ect. Should this fueling setup be able to handle 600whp. If yes, is that a yes WITH or WITHOUT the dual walbro Lpfp installed?
Thanks alot.
What size nozzles or injectors are in for the meth? Lose the CP injectior, its not needed at all. Just tune the car properly. Im assuming 93oct is the base fuel? if so no need for the second pump if you're running DP meth.
I installed my aquamist kit. If you have any questions while doing the install I am happy to help. As long as you follow the directions and set up as the install manual says it is the best meth kit on the market in my opinion. Tap the white stripped purple wire in front of the shifter for the gauge illumination, trust me you want it to work. I put mine in the DME compartment but you can also locate it in the glovebox. DME box just seems easier and it fits perfect.
http://howertonengineering.com/calculating-jetting/ <--read this
I just did all the math the other day as I was considering the same.
100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth.
Pump output is at 160, subtract 30PSI for your boost so you are at 130 on the chart. 0.4MM would be 140CC. 140CC x 6 = 840CC total. A bit low...I would suggest 0.5mm 180CC x 6 = 1080. You could also use 0.6MM and hit 1440CC but then you will not have enough flow for one in your CP(not essential)
Your stock pump can only flow 1500CC so you are still under. If you go with 0.5mm you can add one nozzle in the charepipe if you wish. As twisted said, it is not required. Normally for IAT cooling it is double the size of your DP jet, rule of thumb iirc, so 360CC would be the goal size the 0.8mm would probably make the most sense at 340CC. 0.9 is 380CC. or I guess you could spray 2 0.5mm in the CP for AIT cooling and hit 360CC exactly. 1080+ 380 = 1460 so that would max the pump as well and at the end of the day you would be spraying as much meth as the 0.6mm DP nozzles but potentially have worse distribution.
http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-...igned-specially-for-direct-port-applications/
or
http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-400-direct-port-bundle-options-this-shop-only/
If you want to keep all aquamist parts in your system. I plan on doing this mainly because of their reputation and I like more parts all from one vendor. I am sure the parts twisted offers are of similar quality etc and he also offers a full complete system with everything you need except a tank.
For a tank I vote to get a sump'd/baffled tank so you do not have pump starvation issues. This is what I use, two tanks, the baffled tank is what the pump draws from, other tank is to feed baffled tank, low fluid warning, LED indicator light, micron filter, pump, etc.
Be wary of unbaffled tanks:
Edit: the aquamist hs4 is the best designed meth injection kit for DI motors that I know of. But you do pay for it. I really like the failsafe that if there is a flow interruption etc it automatically opens the waste gates to save your engine. This is not spray n pray which is how some other less expensive kits do it. As with all port injection on top of DI make sure there are fail safes in place and you are using quality components.
I have toyed with the idea of injecting e85 and meth but I would need much larger tanks which is a no go for me, otherwise I would be filling up the tanks even more so. E85 is basically impossible to get in Massachusetts only like 3 stations. But if I was only injecting on WOT/ where my aquamist injects based on psi(I have it set at 15psi) I would use very little compared to having my gas tank full of it and getting sub 15 mpg constantly.
All that being said pure meth dp injection seems to be the winner unless you have an easy e85 fill up. You also do not need 2 or 3 low pressure fuel pumps and everything else required to fuel 100% e85 aka overspinning the already weak HPFP. Just my thoughts. I know this is a long post but I wanted to hopefully help out another aquamist user.
Hopefully this post helps out others who are considering meth and or direct port meth etc.
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