AzNdevil's RHD 335 6MT Build Thread

Discussion in '3-Series' started by AzNdevil, Nov 4, 2016.

Trader History (1)
  1. Last Updated: Mar 20, 2017
    ---Post Links
    1st- this
    2nd - More Parts!
    3rd - Dyno Baseline
    4th - FBO and Wastegate Rattle Fixed!
    5th - WI Kit and stuff
    6th - RHD WI install Part 1
    7th - Walnut Blasting
    8th - New 8mm Spacers, New Rear Pads, New Brake Rotors, Apex Stud Conversion Kit
    9th - Brake Disc Cracked......
    10th - M3 Steering Rack, CD Changer Delete, Gauge Holder Thingy
    11th - RHD WI Install Part 2

    ---Short Summary of bits Upgraded---
    • MHD Stage 2+ OTS Map
    • ER CP with Forge DV
    • VRSF 7" HD Intercooler
    • VRSF 3" Catless Downpipes
    • BMS DCI+Catchcan
    • RB Modded PCV Valve
    • Poor Man's BMW Performance Exhaust Mod
    • AST 5200 with Extended Reservoirs for Trunk Mount
    • Turner Solid Subframe Bushings and Turner Solid Delrin Diff Bushings
    • Superpro Super Alloy Front Control Arms with Motorsport Bushings
    • Hard Race Rear Guide Rods/Camber/Toe Arms
    • AP Radi-cal 5000R Front Calipers with AP 355mm J-Hook Discs
    • PFC 08 Pads and Zimmerman Zinc Coated Rear Discs
    • Apex PS-7 18" 9J ET31/9.5J ET35 wheels on Zestino 07RS 255/35/18 and 265/35/18
    • Apex Stud Conversion Kit
    • DCS Module Coded to delay traction control kicking in, remove brake boosting, etc
    • M3 Steering Rack Retrofit
    ---To Do List (Maybe)---
    • Used Howerton Engineering Twin Tank with Aquamist HFS-4 kit
    • M3 Steering Servotronic Retrofit
    • Pre Turbo + CP WMI
    • Sunroof Delete with CF Insert
    • Custom Dual Oil Cooler Setup/ER Competition Oil Coolers
    • CSF Radiator
    • Semi Slicks? Overkill for the street but most of my friends run them so...
    • ECS Tuning Trailing Arm, Trailing Arm Bushings, Rear Control Arm Bushings
    • LSD (WaveTrac/MFactory)
    • OEM or Pure Stage 2 Turbos or ST if an affordable kit comes out for RHD
    ---
    My Background...
    6 years of driving experience...
    E36 323 AT - Crashed and scrapped
    E36 328 MT - Drove it until piston rings gave out and everythings pissing oil
    JDM Subaru GC8 Type R STI - Destroyed 3 Engines due to different failures, sold it
    Renault Clio 172 - Crashed and scrapped
    ---
    Anyways... I bought the car a year ago because I couldn't think of anything else to get within my budget. Originally I was in the market for an AT one that I can do the Alpina B3 flash on but... my 6MT came up and the PO was willing to lower his asking price a bit as the turbos rattled so I ended up getting it.

    Since I don't need to drive the car on a daily basis I don't really mind NVH or harshness. I aim to bring this car to the track one day after I have all the suspension/drivetrain bits and cooling upgraded but its primary use will be for spirited drives and highway sprints.

    How I got the car...
    Bone Stock except for 19" Breyton Wheels with 225/255 Michelin PSS
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    Since the wastegates were rattling, I optted for a MHD Stage 1 Flash to get rid of the rattles. I have lots of android phones lying around already so I got myself a cable for under 15USD and flashed away. Felt pretty good considering the price was pretty affordable. Throttle response and power improved significantly after the flash.

    I spent a month or so doing to get to know the car better. In stock form, the car understeers quite a bit. The front end doesn't give me confidence on turn in, the front and rear feels disconnected, the rear end has a mind of its own and wanders around especially when trying to accelerate after apex in high speed corners. The brakes stops stopping the car after a few 200-100km/h stops.

    Then... after two months, my shock dampers failed and started to leak. So... I got a set of somewhat custom AST 5200 from AST Netherlands, Turner Solid Subframe Bushings and Turner Solid Delrin Differential Bushings to see if I can at least cure some of the problems.

    So... a bunch of monies thrown at it and....
    Ast- Suspension 5200 suspension, F450# R634# (converted to lb) springs
    custom quick disconnect hose to reservoir for trunk mount
    Turner Motorsport solid alu subframe + solid delrin diff bushing
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    Alignment Specs:
    Front: -2.3 degrees Camber 0.1 degree Toe Out
    Rear: -1.9 degrees Camber 0.1 degree Toe In

    I was aiming for -2.5 degrees camber in front but the camber plates maxed out already but other than that, everything worked out fine.

    As I installed the subframe and diff bushings together, I couldn't make out which caused more NVH but I'd point my finger at the diff bushings.
    I can hear my differential when accelerating or decelerating and at highway speeds with windows up. Also, I can hear myself physically shifting/clunking now. I can live with it as it's not as bad as my previous cars with solid engine/gearbox mounts which I might eventually do on this car as well.

    The driving aspect of the car... I can't even describe with words how good the suspension is. The ability to soak up bumps on the road and dampening control is far better than anything I have tried (KW V3, PSS9/10, BC ER, etc). Although I still need to get to grips with how to setup the suspension for "spirited drives", it is already very good out of the box with all the settings in the middle. The bushings in the rear tightened up the car a lot and I can finally feel "in control". However, the front end still feels sloppy and not confidence inspiring.

    Although the car can carry a lot more speed into the corner, it still feels heavy and the brakes...are now fading even faster than before. The car still has a tendency to understeer during turn in so... more upgrades!

    2016/11/06 Update
    Poor Man's BMW Performance Exhaust Mod

    Someone offered to do the poor man's BMW Performance Exhaust Mod for 500USD. Well, I wanted some more sound but not drone so I went ahead and did it.
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    Honestly, for the price, it's OK. The exhaust is actually quieter than stock inside the car but it sounds better outside. Best part, it looks completely stock.
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    Valve Cover Gasket/Oil Filter Housing started to leak so I took the chance to install the BMS DCI and RB PCV I had laying around. Also put some NGK plugs and gapped them as they came highly recommended.

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    Just as I exited the garage, my chargepipe cracked and the stock DVs shot out of the pipe.... So I had to limp home and order myself a ER Chargepipe with Forge DVs.
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    The pipe itself fit great but I had no idea how to hook up the DVs without hitting the side of the front shock tower. I gave up in the end and cut off part of the silicon pipe and got the DV on in the end. Also swapped to the harder spring for the DV as recommended. Throttle Response definitely improved after upgrading the DVs and no more half engine light!

    Finally...I can afford the get myself some wheels. I didn't want too much camber to clear the fenders so I ended up getting Apex PS-7 18" 9J ET31/9.5J ET35 wheels on Zestino 07RS 255/35/18 and 265/35/18 tires. I originally planned to use Bridgestone RE71R instead but the tire shop I went to didn't have the rear tires in stock and they didn't have any Federal 595RSRR front tires either. So I ended up trying this new brand, Zestino. China brand but developed in Japan by some pro drifter dude. Ended up paying 600USD for 4 tires which was very cheap but its something I still regret because the steering feedback is horrible.

    The stupid tire shop also ruined my set of Apex Studs by installing them the wrong way around and I had to get the nut welded to remove it in the end. The wheels didn't clear the adjustable endlink mount on my AST 5200 so I had to ask a friend to borrow a set of 10mm spacers so I could drive home.

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  2. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    AZ
    2009 E93 335i
    How much of a pain are the subframe/diff bushings to install? I'm sensitive to the NVH to a degree. And that rear suspension is awesome, damping control access from the trunk?!
     
  3. Wasn't that hard according to my garage since the part fits pretty well.. Stay away from the diff bushings if you hate NVH.
    The clunking during shifting and the whine at highway speeds with windows up are annoying.

    And yes the rear suspension setup is good, compression and rebound both accessible from the trunk but the front compression.... needs to be adjusted from the bottom of the damper. With 255 tires its very hard to reach...
     
  4. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    AZ
    2009 E93 335i
    Good to know, thank you.

    I don't think there is much you can do about accessibility on the front outside of some kind of electronic controller.
     
  5. Easy way out: Get more bits to put on the car, visit the garage more often so I can adjust it on the lift ;)
     
  6. Danksies

    Danksies Corporal

    I see you went the suspension route as well lol. nice little list of mods you got. ever thought about widening the front wheels? we definitely have an inherent understeer problem because of the short width from the front left tire to right tire, so I'm thinking of ways to widen the stance and also fit wider front wheels. both should help drastically
     
  7. Well I am at 9/9.5J with Apex Wheels and 10mm spacers in front to clear my endlink mounts (long story). For a 90% street setup, I can work with it since I still want to keep a little bit of understeer in case I go fast into a corner. Also, if I get a 9.5J squared setup, I need more camber to clear the fender.....but... I might end up getting more camber since theres too much outside tire wear at 2.5/2 degrees of camber.
     
  8. 2016/11/06 Continued...
    AP Radi-cal 5000R with AP J hook 355mm Rotors and Project Mu 999 Pads

    Saved up for a while to get a brake upgrade... So I chose to have a custom carrier and rotor hat made locally. Luckily I didn't go with a 380mm rotor because it wouldn't clear the wheel for sure.
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    After installing the brakes, I test drove them and.... damn the brake pads were clunking around like crazy due to the lack of springs to hold them in place. After searching around, it seems this is a known issue even for people with the Essex Kit so... I sourced a set of springs from China and the clunking is completely gone.
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    Superpro Caster and Camber Adjustable Control Arms
    Due to lots of spirited drives, the stock bushings on my front control arms were starting to wear out causing a lot of slack at the steering wheel. I had a few options to choose from...
    • OEM M3 Control Arms + Rogue Engineering Monoball bushing upgrade
    • Turner M3 Control Arms with Monoball bushing
    • Superpro Caster and Camber Adjustable Control Arms
    I went with Superpro in the end because after I tried my friends' 335 with monoball bushings, the steering feels horrible around the center point. It feels way very light like the wheel isn't connected to the steering at all. It feels very tight and feedback is great during cornering but I hated how it feels in the center.

    However, I was skeptical to get the arms because no one has done a review on them on the E9x platform...but theres always a first for everything so...one week later...

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    Even though these arms were marketed to allow for 1 degree of camber and 1 degree of caster adjustment, it is not true in reality. As the caster increases, camber decreases so the geometry more or less ends up being the same the M3 arms if I wanted to increase my camber and caster at the same time (~0.5 degree of caster and ~0.5 degree of camber).

    I ended up the below alignment settings.
    Front (Superpro Control Arms)
    7.3 degree caster on both sides, -2.4 degrees camber, -0.1 degree toe out
    Rear (Stock Arms)
    -2.0 degrees camber, 0.1 degree toe in

    Disappointing since I planned for more camber for both front and rear from my setup. My camber plates in front won't go any further as the hose fitting from the damper will hit the shock tower. I might end up sacrificing caster for some more camber but since I maxed out the adjustment for the rear arms, the current setup will be fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
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  9. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    AZ
    2009 E93 335i
    What is different about the custom setup vs whats available in the aftermarket already?
     
  10. 335iHaroon

    335iHaroon Specialist

    Sick build. Don't see many rhds.
     
  11. Well... the AP Radi-cal doesn't come as a kit from factory so a carrier needs to be fabbed in order to mount the caliper. AP themselves do make a kit that comes with calipers from their 5000+ line up of calipers which are more streetable with dust boots and stiffer anti knock springs.

    From past experience, I know street setups like the popular SS hose+pad+disc or Street BBKs (Brembo 18z) won't provide the braking power and heat resistance I need so I went directly to a track setup.

    I chose the 5000R caliper because the piston area is similar to stock which won't change the brake pedal travel/feel and brake bias too much unlike other popular BBKs (ST-40/60) which has a smaller piston area and cause the brake pedal to engage the brakes at a higher bite point and less modulation.

    This is not as noticeable because with the electronic nannies enabled by default, the brake pedal feel doesn't change at all due to dynamic brake boosting by the DSC module of the car. Even when you start to experience brake fade, the brake pedal feel still feels the same yet the car won't really stop with your foot hard on the brake.

    Fortunately, this can be coded out using NCSExpert and NCSDummy ;) I can do a post on this if theres enough interest but there is a similar thread on another forum if you look on google for BMWs.
     
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  12. Seems that you have a lot of experience concerning track worth Upgrades.
    I use my 135i as sort of daily (gets driven 2 or 3 times a week) and on the track. Since i am upgrading to Hybdrids this or next month, i am looking for the next mods Suspension wise, too. Cause i want to have a stable car...

    My plans were:
    - Whiteline RSFB
    - M3 FCA
    - M3 Rear Guide Rod´s
    - Godspeed Toe Control Arms

    It seems that you went a Little different way for example with Front control arms. Could you Elaborate a Little why you did not get the M3 ones? The description of monoball Feelings do not Sound good, so i wont go that route either. M3 Arms here in Germany are really cheap, they were my favorite since i read your thread.
    Maybe you have some advices for further mods which fit my Upgrades written in my signature.

    Nice build thats for sure! The Coilovers are a dream, and the BBK is one too ( a wet one :-D)
     
  13. Thanks for the comment! Unfortunately... I am still very far away from completing the car due to lack of funds though....

    I didn't get the M3 arms because the bushings are too soft. I would need to upgrade them to poly bushings afterwards anyways so I might as well get something stiffer in the first place.

    M3 arms are cheap here as well but the Superpro arms only costs around 100 EUR more so I went ahead with it.

    As for rear arms, since the car will get driven in the rain, I want something that has sealed bearings so I don't have to clean and lubricate them that much.

    It really depends your tolerance for noise and stiffness if you ask me. From my experience, I can live with stiff bushings for all suspension parts but a definite nono for engine mounts and gearbox mounts. If you ask me, the roads are better in Germany than Hong Kong (I have driven from Munich to Stuttgart to Nurburgring and.back to Munich in 2 days) so I wouldn't have a problem to use a similar setup if I own a car in Germany.

    If I am in the same position as you, I would get a LSD and rear subframe bushing upgrades before turbo because you won't be able to get power down onto the road without wheelspin unless you are running semi slicks. Even at FBO, Michelin PSS have trouble gripping on 1st and 2nd gear.

    Also, I have seen Godspeed arms snap or come off on other.cars so I wouldn't recommend them....
     
  14. Thanks for your answer.
    I am FBO and have Michelin PSS- if the road is not wet traction is ok, but of course could be better, at least coming out of a Corner. But my coilovers (ST XTA) with a good alignment really made the car connected to the ground. I am planning a wavetrac too, but since i use it sort of dual wise, i will do the Turbos first (they will arrive here in the beginning of next week, really excited :)).
    It´s a Little mix between only mods which make sense for tracking, and mods for power cause it is fun to drive such a small car with so much power. With FBO and Stock twins the Power is almost too much for going fast on a track, i think with a 380-400HP Tune you will be ok and want be any faster with more HP. But: It makes more fun :-D..

    I plan to have 2 Maps, one for fun and 500-550 HP (depends on what my HPFP ist doing) and one with around 450-480HP with a nice linear curve (like 9-18PSI Redline) for the track. Since the Power in the lower rpm range from Stock twins is not really good for the track...And i want the hybrids the most, cause they deliver the power until redline. My Tune now has a Peak at around 5.000RPM and then the HP gets down.

    Never heard that the M3 Bushings are too soft, did you recognize that yourself? I mean i know that the 100% Racecars are Using PU Bushings everwhere, but until now i thought the M3 ones were an good compromise. I am paying 260€ for all FCA...But i will have a look how much the Superpro ones are here. I am really a fan of doing it once and right most of the time.

    Which rear arms would you advise? My car gets driven in all condition, i use it in winter, too.

    Concerning tolerance of noise and stiffness: I have an SMFW which also makes a Little bit of noise and vibrations if you acclerating under 3.000RPM. It is ok, but of course it is nicer to not have the Sound. So i am a Little bit between the chairs: I want not the loudest car ever, where everyone who is not used to the Sound it makes thinks it is totally broken. But a Little bit more harsh ride and Sound is totally ok. My Uniball Plates for the front coilovers are making clunking noises, too- but i dont care. It is odd, cause here in Germany nobody (!) is Aware of the Subframe Problems. I really know only one or two People who are using them..

    Any more advices what i should upgrade? For the Mods done until now you can look in my signature :)
     
  15. Like I said, it depends on your tolerance for NVH and harshness... some of my friends DD on semi slicks and solid bushings. For me...extreme summer tires (~140 TR) and Hard Poly Bushings for the whole car except motor mounts and transmission mount is acceptable. For a 100% racecar, I would go solid aluminum bushings everywhere but it's too loud and harsh for daily use (I have tried it before and hated it).

    In terms of stiffness...
    Stock < M3 < Soft Poly Bushings for Street (~60A) < BMW Group N bushings < Hard Poly Bushings (90A) < Delrin < Solid Aluminum/Monoball/Spherical Rod Ends

    Since you will drive your car in the winter, I recommend M3 rear arms with upgraded hard poly bushings because they won't rust or get damaged by salt as easy as control arms with spherical rod ends.

    If you are going to track your car then you definitely need to upgrade the stock radiator to a CSF radiator and oil cooler(s). I have experienced limp mode during spirited driving even on stock turbos and a stage 1 map so I can't imagine how hot the temperature will get with upgraded turbos.

    Also, you will need to upgrade your brakes... from my experience, doing pad upgrades is not enough if you are going to do quick stops which is why I am running track racing pads on the street as well. 3 stops from 200km/h to 100 can get DS2500 to brake fade already.
     
  16. Yeah i think hard bushings inside the arms could be ok for me also. I now have E46 M4 Transmission Mounts, thought about upgrading the engine mounts but decided against it, since i heard that this makes the whole car shaking.

    What rear arms do you mean? There is a really really good thread about M3 rear arms at 1addicts, where a member investigated the stiffness of M3 Arms over Stock ones. He came to the conclusion that only the guide rod is worth buying it- is it the guide rod you would use with upgraded poly bushings? Cause this would be the only arm i would change together with an aftermarket toe arm, cause the M3 one does not fit there.

    I had 10 rounds at Nordschleife in the last year, oil temp was around 140 ° Celsius after one round. I will also install an oil cooler, but i did not decide which route i will go, cause i don´t want to let the car running at too low temperatures when using it daily. I think the Oil Temp needs to be at 120 ° Celsius sometimes, so that fuel and water get out of the oil- that is why BMW decided to let the N54 run as hot as it runs. Maybe therefore an upgrade Radiator is the best idea, cause the engine does not give you full Power when Water Temp exceeds 100 ° Celsius water temperature, whereas Limp mode caused by oil temp only comes up at 150° Celsius. Another thing is, that since the last months you can control your cooling settings with MHD and let the Fan start more earlier or target a little less temperature for the different cooling circuits.

    I don´t think the temperature will be higher with upgraded turbos- i drove an 450HP Map at Nordschleife, where the OEM Turbos are maxed out. Upgraded Turbos will be running extrem efficient when only pushed to 450HP and i could imagine that therefore the temperatures will be a little less. A lot of the high oil temp is coming from the extremly high IAT (it was in summer) cause the OEM Turbos produce the air really hot.

    Regarding brakes: The Nordschleife is not the hardest track for brakes, luckily. A BBK is also a would love to have on my list. But i Upgraded to DS2500/DSPerformance and they are working really good for the moment. But after having the Ferodo Combination driven on track, i noticed that a brake upgrade is almost as much more fun as an upgrade in horsepower. Thats when the thoughts came up: You need an ultimate BBK, which never ever makes problems or fade again, not matter how hard you brake...

    Also i would like to have: Recaro Pole Positions, Club Sport Cage and an dedicated track wheel/tire Combination.
     
  17. Yes but like I said, M3 control arms with hard poly bushings will be a lot more expensive. That's why I got the Superpro arms. And yes, engine and transmission mounts will make the car vibrate.

    In your case, I would get M3 Rear Guide Rod and Rear Upper Link and stay with the stock Toe Arm and upgrade all bushings to PU. However, with this setup, you will be limited to 2 degrees of rear camber and 0.1 toe in, that's the maximum adjustment (+/- 0.1 to 0.2 depending on ride height).

    Run a custom dual oil cooler setup with Setrab Oil Coolers and an external oil thermostat instead of the ADE bypass you have now. I am considering this as well but lacking funds :)

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    Coolant Temp Limp Mode is 117 C degrees and Oil Temp Limp Mode is 150 C degrees on a stock map but I wouldn't want to go any higher anyways... I am running a OTS Stage 1 Map so I can't edit my water pump settings :(

    Regarding turbos...true. You wouldn't need to run boost as high to get the same power with a larger turbo. The whole setup gets hot anyways so in the end you will need to use as many coolers as you can fit to get rid of the heat..

    If you want something to hold you in place better, I would suggest the https://www.schrothracing.com/products/quickfit seatbelts instead. But of course, bucket seats are the best way to go in the long run if you are willing to daily drive in buckets...

    It's illegal for me to have a cage in the car so it's out of the question...
     
  18. You have this arms: Aluminium Lenker der Vorderachse - Kit - SuperPro right? They are almost double the price of the M3 TRW ones. But i maybe going this way if you recommend them. With them RSFB in the first step and the other bits in the next steps...

    Rear Upper Link, i think, was one of the ones which does not really make sense. Going PU Bushings is an good idea- do you think that on the front axle the arms are enough? There are a lot of other bushings, too?

    Yeah, that would be the Setup to go, i probably will build one myself. Then the price should be ok. The Plug&Play Kits are all around 1.000 $...

    Limp mode by water is 117, yes. But an Engineer from BMW told us, that the Power will be limited when water is above 100. Whereas oil only makes this when above 145 or 150...

    Bucket Seats are a cool thing, i think it makes the whole drive feeling more sporty. Of course than with Schroth belts...This belts are an good idea, but with OEM Seats i think it would look strange.

    Why is it illegal for you to have an cage? What do you plan modwise in the next steps?
     
  19. Yes these are the arms I have. Honestly, I really like the arms myself but I won't buy them at this price. I am pretty sure you can get it cheaper somewhere else. Currently my front setup is complete for now but I think my rear arm bushings are starting to go as well.

    To be honest...100 seems a bit low as the coolant system is pressurized at 2 bar which means it should be able to have a higher boiling point... hopefully someone with more knowledge can chime in.

    Yes bucket seats make you feel better but its the belts that really strap you in;)

    I will not be able to pass inspection with a rollcage as the road rules here won't allow it. In fact, I can't pass with my BBK either but...money talks.

    I have some parts ordered and on the way as we speak:p
     
  20. The second I scrolled down and saw ASTs paired with the BBK, I knew I'd like this build. Keep up the good work!
     

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