Direct port meth

Bmwfixerguy1

Lieutenant
Jun 5, 2017
872
I'll make this short and to the point..

Want to get some real world experience with fellas that went direct port from CP meth and how it worked out tuning wise

By that I mean where the beifits well worth the upgrade? More nozzles mean more places to leak.. don't give me the clog bit we have all been down that argument road and clogged nozzles will not be a factor.

What I want to know is post direct port was there a great change for the better?

I think @twistedtuning will be able to answer the best
 

Tuppidsay

Corporal
Aug 3, 2017
104
Seattle, WA
I ran chargepipe before port but I also upgraded turbos and a lot more at the same time so I'm probably not the guy you want to talk to.

My current system 16gph total flow. 100% meth. This allows me 9 degrees of timing up top @ 26psi. My timing is tapered up to ease my automatic. Do u need direct port, no, could probably do the same with 3 cm5s or something like that but to me it's a safety margin thing. Consistency. Equal distribution etc

I have had very few issues with external leaks on both systems. The ones I did have were always from push fittings. Never from compression. I have the older prometh design and am having issues with leaky check valves. My 3rd set in less than I year was shipped out yesterday. Granted prometh has had excellent customer service and sent each set no charge including shipping but it is obnoxious.

Good luck.
 
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colinod

Private
Aug 13, 2017
48
I used to have charge pipe meth now i moved to direct port. distribution is a lot better and if you are using it for fuel then you will stop toasting cyl 1 and 6. if your tune pull timing from those cylinders to compensate then its not healthy for each cylinder to produce different amounts of power. you dont have to worry about meth falling out of atomization when the meth crosses the throttle plate either.
 
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STE92

Corporal
Mar 3, 2017
159
I just recently switch my set up from cP to PI meth. I haven’t turn it on yet as the car had few issue sorting out(non meth kit related). As far as my Cp setup I never had any issue with leak since my setup is all steel braided, boost was set and 24psi 100% meth. Car love it. Really hoping with pI meth to dialed in a bit better and more consistent, up the boost a bit more . Will report back.
 

Bmwfixerguy1

Lieutenant
Jun 5, 2017
872
Good to see some results will be in soon!
I'm basically looking for all the same things all you guys are, a little bit better/even distobution to all six cylinders

I plan on using 6 of the aquamist OE style nozzzles with a 7th 200-250cc in the charge pipe as well. I'll be installing them just like fuel injectors as they use o rings and fit an LS Bosch style injector bore.
 
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Twisted Tuning

Lieutenant
Platinum Vendor
Oct 25, 2016
950
New York
When it comes to methanol injection. Well any secondary fuel injection the important thing to take note of is "Atomization and Distribution"

Sure you can get a couple huge nozzles to flow the same volume of 6 small nozzles. But firehose vs fine mist of the same volume, the mist will always perform better and promote better combustion and less chance of pooling. Which is always a possibility with injecting before the manifold and not somewhere in the runners.

Honestly speaking, if you're using methanol as a fuel supplement, Direct port is the only way to go in terms of safety. I don't know why people would recommend anything else. Especially if you're using it for big power.

Everyone uses clogged nozzles to fear monger people, but those types of failures are super preventable by keeping the system clean starting from the tank. Most peoples issues come from letting a Meth injected cars sit for long periods of time without running the system. and things can cease up.

Me personally, a kill map for me would be C16 or similar race fuel with 100% meth injection. I've made 800hp on meth injection (Direct port) and 93oct. Ethanol is cool (no pun intended) but the amount of stress it adds to the fuel system is huge to be able to flow enough. just my preference.

in short....big power goals, direct port meth injection.
 
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Twisted Tuning

Lieutenant
Platinum Vendor
Oct 25, 2016
950
New York
Good to see some results will be in soon!
I'm basically looking for all the same things all you guys are, a little bit better/even distobution to all six cylinders

I plan on using 6 of the aquamist OE style nozzzles with a 7th 200-250cc in the charge pipe as well. I'll be installing them just like fuel injectors as they use o rings and fit an LS Bosch style injector bore.

wouldn't even bother with the 7th in the chargepipe
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,671
Boston
wouldn't even bother with the 7th in the chargepipe
Isn't the idea it cool the iat sensor so you don't have to compensate for it reading high aits when it will be much cooler in the manifold? I assume you can tune that out. Just curious as most DP meth seems to keep an injector in the cp, that I have seen online.
 
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Bmwfixerguy1

Lieutenant
Jun 5, 2017
872
Isn't the idea it cool the iat sensor so you don't have to compensate for it reading high aits when it will be much cooler in the manifold? I assume you can tune that out. Just curious as most DP meth seems to keep an injector in the cp.
I think I understand the thought behind ditching the 7th nozzle. Basically when you go port meth IMO you going to port injection bit with a better fuel than ethanol.. I figured the 7th nozzle should be a benefit because it's easy to add on and may cool a bit.. but I assume his point is look at all the guys running port on e85 with no chem charge cooling...
 

colinod

Private
Aug 13, 2017
48
Doesnt timing pull due to iat start at 120F?

That should be a problem with a decent size intercooler. Beside your iat and tmap are much happier without methanol being on them.

I wonder is there some kinda math calculation for injector size and meth amount?
There are many online calculators to convert GPH to cc per minute
 

Tuppidsay

Corporal
Aug 3, 2017
104
Seattle, WA
Quick Jetting Guide:

100% water target 8-10% of fuel flow
50/50 mix target 15–20% of fuel flow
100% methanol target 20–25% of fuel flow
If you don't know fuel flow you can do the following.

Horsepower @ crank x .5 = CC jetting (pure water)
Horsepower @ crank x 1.0 = CC jetting (50/50 mix)
Horsepower @ crank x 1.5-2.0 = CC jetting (pure methanol)
 
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MoreBoost

Sergeant
Jul 27, 2017
308
If you are running 27 psi with aggressive timing and one of your 6 nozzles clogs at wot then you are going to wish you had that 7th nozzle.
Better to have knock than detonation in a cylinder that's maybe now on just pump gas.
Hopefully you have an ethanol blend or race gas just in case but it's a simple safety.
 

MoreBoost

Sergeant
Jul 27, 2017
308
It was 2 years ago that I created my own meth port injection system. I was so sick of waiting for something to come to market.
I first installed the kit on stock turbos at 23 psi. Even with small nozzles the meth flow was a lot. Trims went to zero I think.

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Later I upgraded to GC turbos and I needed more meth flow so I had to increase the size of the nozzles. 6 or 7 nozzles can be pricey. I've tried around 17 nozzles.
Tbh a meth injection system isn't ideal. They take a little while to build pressure and spray. Without an AIC and injectors the fuel metering are not ideal. The DME will reduce the duty on the DI injectors to hit the AFRs. That's adding or removing gasoline. Meth Pumps can fail. Mine hasnt in 3 years but they can.
Charge pipe worked great. Port injection will work better because of better distribution. If you want to hit high HP then you want port injection.
Ideally you'd like a solenoid on each nozzle if not using injectors but it's a bit of a wiring mess and you have many more points of failure.
I tested the setup on the side of my car. I'm spraying water only in that test. I'm not covering my car in flammable meth.
 
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