DIY DIY EKPM3 Active Cooling for LPFP

island road

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My Small Contribution to this thread, love the technical talk def following as it would be awesome to have a solution that does not have a starting cost of $650. As for the "Warranty" talk 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

Picture is taken from there FB site - Not super high quality or very close up but gives everybody an idea.

61853966_2379077352188706_3049225900244598784_o.jpg
 
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Silent11

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with my walbro 525 and ekp3 my lpfp hovers around 82-83 psi after going wot and wont go back to 72 -73 psi if i dont cycle the ignition. If i keep driving it will shut off the car within 10-15 mins. So far i havent been able to find anyone that has the same problem. Will the cooling help keep the car running at 80+ psi. The current is increased at 80+ is it not ?? It feels like it is giving a false reading after going WOT.
 

veer90

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with my walbro 525 and ekp3 my lpfp hovers around 82-83 psi after going wot and wont go back to 72 -73 psi if i dont cycle the ignition. If i keep driving it will shut off the car within 10-15 mins. So far i havent been able to find anyone that has the same problem. Will the cooling help keep the car running at 80+ psi. The current is increased at 80+ is it not ?? It feels like it is giving a false reading after going WOT.

is EKP coded to the car?
 

ajm8127

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with my walbro 525 and ekp3 my lpfp hovers around 82-83 psi after going wot and wont go back to 72 -73 psi if i dont cycle the ignition. If i keep driving it will shut off the car within 10-15 mins. So far i havent been able to find anyone that has the same problem. Will the cooling help keep the car running at 80+ psi. The current is increased at 80+ is it not ?? It feels like it is giving a false reading after going WOT.

At 80 psi the Walbro 525 is drawing about 21 or so amps. Stock pump draws 10 or 11 amps at 100% PWM. I wonder if the 525 pump flows too much for the regulator. There is a regulator in the tank I would assume (return-less system).

The fact that it stays at 80 is maybe an effect of the EKP regulating fuel delivery by way of controlling the pump speed. The 525 obviously flows more than the stock pump which the module was designed and programmed for. However, if the regulator is set at 72, it should output no more than 72 unless the regulator is being overwhelmed with volume, or perhaps the pressure regulation comes from the pump itself and feedback about load, rpm and maybe the low pressure sensor, but it would never be as good as a mechanical regulator. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mix of software to only spin the pump as much as necessary and a regulator in the tank to give a nice constant 72 psi (normally). I don't know why the 525 pump would be giving you 72 until you go WOT then it gives 82. Sounds like something is telling the pump to spin faster after going WOT. If that is the EKP directly or by way of control from another module (DME) I don't know.

Why don't you try the experiment again with the EKP exposed in the mounted position so you can stick a finger under it and feel how hot it gets. Leave it mounted because some heat goes into that bracket it is mounted on. See what the temperature is right after WOT and then again in 10 minutes assuming it is delivering 80+ psi.
 
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doublespaces

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I don't know why the 525 pump would be giving you 72 until you go WOT then it gives 82. Sounds like something is telling the pump to spin faster after going WOT. If that is the EKP directly or by way of control from another module (DME) I don't know.

Duty cycle from DME is designed to go to 100% when WOT(So I'm told in laymans terms). MHD doesn't log LPFP duty, I'm not sure why exactly but it's a loggable parameter with the BPM4.

Here is a BPM4 log:

Additional information

Part NumberMax Priming DutyMax Priming RPMVariantTorqBFM VersionLower Shutoff DutyFault DutyOutput FreqControl TypeLPFP SensorActive Intercept is -veActive SlopeActive InterceptBPM4 FW Version
Sensored-3% 7505000167772161507501041112005000289

Also, your name sounds familiar. I think you're one of the people that I asked to be part of the secret group of people that worked on the BMW PC flasher way back when? I had a different username at the time
 
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ajm8127

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[EDIT 08/15/2020] - Updated EKPM2 rise and fall times. Times measured using INPA actuation is different from times measured with engine running. I only measured the times with the stock pump and not with the additional load because the additional load rise and fall times have been shown to be the same. What is encouraging is under some conditions the EKPM2 can switch very fast so the hardware is capable, just need to figure out the software aspect to control this. This same effect of a difference in rise/fall times on the EKPM2 will not occur on the EKPM3 because the switch is driven be a digital siganl and the times are controlled by the BTN7960/BTN8982 switch instead of the EKPM2 where the rise and fall times are configurable by programming the drive strength of the AS8446 FET driver.

[Original post - revised to correct rise/fall time data]

I collected some data on the EKPM2 at two different load currents.

My methodology was to connect a number of test leads to the EKPM2 and monitor performance while commanding the pump to 100% via INPA. I conducted two tests. The first was with only the stock pump connected to the output. The second was with the stock pump plus an additional load. Coincidentally the biggest load I could find at home results in a current draw that approximates a Walbro 450. Power was supplied from a power supply and not the battery to minimize voltage changes due to loading and discharging. All measurements were taken from the EKPM2 boards itself. The voltages of the second test were lower because there was some voltage drop in my setup related to drawing a fair amount of current through the cables I was using to connect the power supply to the module.

EKPM2 Test DataStock pumpStock pump plus additional load
Inductor Resistance4.6 mOhms4.5 mOhm
FET Resistance (Rds_on)4.7 mOhms4.6 mOhms
Current10.6 Amps17 Amps
FET Vgs10.88 V10.83 V
Vin13.0512.51
Vout12.9512.34
Rise/Fall Time186 ns/82 ns 1082 ns/960 ns180 ns/90 ns (same as stock pump)

The first thing you'll notice is how low the on state resistance of the FET is. This is inline with the BUK9107-10ATC datasheet. The difference in two resistance measurements is within error of the measurement. Some parts will be a little better than the datasheet, some parts worse. Typical is 5.2 and max is 6.2 mOhm at 25 °C with 10 Vgs and 50 amps. I was curious if the resistance would increase with more current, but from the characteristic graphs in the datasheet I think the results aren't surprising.

BUK9107-40ATC Rds_on vs Id.PNG


What is important is the line labeled "10". In this case "10" refers to the voltage at the FET gate terminal with respect to the FET source terminal. I measured that voltage (Vgs) at 10.8 volts. Which is really good. The FET is fully on at this voltage. As you can see, the line is flat until around 150 amps through the drain terminal. This part is specified up to 140 amps continuous, but the package limits this to 75 amps. I know it might not make sense to specify it at more than the package can handle, but this is typical with high current FETs.

This number is not the amount of current the FET can handle in all conditions, but only the amount of current permissible at 25 °C. Once you get to 140 or even 75 amps, the part is going to heat up. FETs exhibit a nasty characteristic call thermal runaway. The on state resistance of the FET increases with temperature, causing it to get hotter which further increases the on state resistance. Left unchecked the silicon of the FET will turn into molten glass and the magic smoke will escape. This is why both the EKPM2 and EKPM3 have provisions to monitor the temperature of the switch and disable the module if it overheats.

The second thing to talk about are the rise and fall times. Times in the 100 to 200 nanosecond range are pretty fast. I don't think it is adjustable in the EKPM2 the way it is in the EKPM3 via an external resistor. From what I can gather about the FET driver, the rise and fall times are programmable via digital communications from the microcontroller to the FET driver. Maybe coding can adjust this. That will take some looking into.

So next I need to test an EKPM3 to compare it to the EKMP2. I have a HW 04 version in the mail right now. Once I receive it I will code it to the car and then repeat the tests. I also have a heat sink and gap pad en route to play with.
 
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ajm8127

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@doublespaces Yes that is right about the group. I do remember your old name. That was a while ago. This is a pretty nice thing you've got going on here.

I am not familar with all of those channels. I suppose input duty is commanded by the DME and output duty is the command from the BPM4 to the pump? Looks like the numbers are multiplied by 10, because duty cycle is usually between 0 and 100. At full effort output duty is 1000. Output duty doesn't go to 100% until 5200 RPM. I've read the DME commands a fuel pump duty cycle based on RPM and load. I figured that meant the EKP was doing the calculation. I can't recall where I read that now, but it makes sense that the DME might calculate that and just send the duty cycle requested to the EKP because I am sure that Tricore part on the DME has much more power than the 16 bit MCU on the EKP.

The fuel request channel is interesting. It follows output duty, but it appears to be scaled for an eight bit number (0-255). Maybe this is the direct command from the DME. Makes me want to hook my module back up and capture some CAN traffic.

Maybe these parameters are loggable with the BMP4 because it broadcasts them over the PT-CAN bus while the stock modules do not.

I am not really interested in building a replacement module. The BPM already seems very capable and pretty elegant. If we could improve the stock module in a DIY fashion I think that would be great.
 

doublespaces

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@doublespaces Yes that is right about the group. I do remember your old name. That was a while ago. This is a pretty nice thing you've got going on here.

Thanks! The board was crafted with love from an enthusiast, so hopefully everyone enjoys it.

I am not familar with all of those channels. I suppose input duty is commanded by the DME and output duty is the command from the BPM4 to the pump? Looks like the numbers are multiplied by 10, because duty cycle is usually between 0 and 100. At full effort output duty is 1000. Output duty doesn't go to 100% until 5200 RPM. I've read the DME commands a fuel pump duty cycle based on RPM and load. I figured that meant the EKP was doing the calculation. I can't recall where I read that now, but it makes sense that the DME might calculate that and just send the duty cycle requested to the EKP because I am sure that Tricore part on the DME has much more power than the 16 bit MCU on the EKP.

The BPM4 appears to do it's own thing based on whatever logic it deems necessary, however I can confirm there is a duty from the DME and thats about all I know. Out of respect for Mike, I'd recommend we refrain from using his product as a means to create competition.

I've asked @jyamona to put this duty cycle in MHD as it would help with various LPFP troubleshooting scenarios.
 

fmorelli

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I've ordered a handful of the newer IC's.

There are a variety of EKPM3's out there, hardware variation wise. @ajm8127 any thoughts on prefered layout? I need to pick up a few as I want to do several.

Filippo
 

doublespaces

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I've ordered a handful of the newer IC's.

There are a variety of EKPM3's out there, hardware variation wise. @ajm8127 any thoughts on prefered layout? I need to pick up a few as I want to do several.

Filippo

I have an ekp I'd sell for peanuts to anyone interested. Took it off when I put on my BPM4.
 

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ajm8127

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There are a variety of EKPM3's out there, hardware variation wise. @ajm8127 any thoughts on prefered layout? I need to pick up a few as I want to do several.

From the standpoint of heat flow out of the BTN7960 switch I think HW 04 is preferred.

In HW 04 the copper area connected to the exposed pad of the package is much larger. This increase in surface area not only spreads the heat out more on the board, but also allow the heat to transfer to the metal base of the module across a wider area.

Also in HW 06, the board is physically shorter than the HW 04 version. You can see this with the size of the module itself in post 26 of this thread. I guess they made it as small as possible, but again, this is typically the opposite of what you want for maximizing heat flow and minimizing temperature.

See the different in the outlined areas below. These areas are the exposed copper areas directly connected the the exposed pad. You can see on the underside of HW 06 how constrained the discolored are is. heat will flow to adjacent copper fills, but it must jump a gap where there is no metal. Heat flows more readily through metal than fiberglass.

So assuming heat is the primary concern, the HW 04 appears to be better. I should note I have not tested either of these boards, but I am speaking from experience with other PCBs.

HW 04:
EKPM3_HW04_top.jpg
EKPM3_HW04_bot.jpg


HW 06:
EKPM3_HW06_top.jpg
EKPM3_HW06_bot.jpg
 

fmorelli

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Well we don't know how many miles each of these units have, which would contribute to the burn area I would imagine, not to mention whether they were used with a stock pump or a higher drawing pump.

These two boards have significantly different layouts and components. I suppose I'd wonder if they were not improvements? Are you thinking HW06 is actually a "downgrade" so to speak?

EKP for pump management has been used on a number of later cars as well - not to make all of this more complicated, but there are further revisions. No idea if they are compatible beyond pin out.

Filippo
 

The Banshee

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with my walbro 525 and ekp3 my lpfp hovers around 82-83 psi after going wot and wont go back to 72 -73 psi if i dont cycle the ignition. If i keep driving it will shut off the car within 10-15 mins. So far i havent been able to find anyone that has the same problem. Will the cooling help keep the car running at 80+ psi. The current is increased at 80+ is it not ?? It feels like it is giving a false reading after going WOT.
I have the same issue running a single 450. Only difference is mine hovers around 77-78 after WOT. I notice the car runs slightly rough after this happens. If I shut the car off and reset the fault it goes back to hovering around 72-73. Car runs noticeably smoother once it goes back to 72-73. I have had this problem on the original EKPM3 and a new reprogrammed EKPM3.
I have new low pressure sensors as well.
 

Silent11

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I have the same issue running a single 450. Only difference is mine hovers around 77-78 after WOT. I notice the car runs slightly rough after this happens. If I shut the car off and reset the fault it goes back to hovering around 72-73. Car runs noticeably smoother once it goes back to 72-73. I have had this problem on the original EKPM3 and a new reprogrammed EKPM3.
I have new low pressure sensors as well.
i had a 450 in there for a year before it went bad and i never had this issue, i was thinking of going back to a 450 so i dont have to worry about the car shutting down but i see now that you have the same problem with a 450. Strange.
 
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ajm8127

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Well we don't know how many miles each of these units have, which would contribute to the burn area I would imagine, not to mention whether they were used with a stock pump or a higher drawing pump.

These two boards have significantly different layouts and components. I suppose I'd wonder if they were not improvements? Are you thinking HW06 is actually a "downgrade" so to speak?

EKP for pump management has been used on a number of later cars as well - not to make all of this more complicated, but there are further revisions. No idea if they are compatible beyond pin out.

You don't know, but chances are they were used with the stock pump. A lot more cars are running the stock pump than an aftermarket one. A lot.

I would not call the HW 06 a "downgrade". What we are doing to beyond the scope of the design goals. We may find that the HW 04 performs better when pushed beyond it's limit, but from the scope of the stock fuel system it isn't a downgrade. There are many different design goals the engineers balanced and the functional current and operating temperature are just two of them.

There are a couple reasons you would need to redesign a module like this. The obvious one is features. The old module doesn't do something the new module needs to. While that may be true in some application in the E90 with a stock pump EKPM2 = EKPM3 HW 04 = EKPM3 HW 06. They are interchangeable.

Along the same lines is if the module needs to change in size or shape. The EKPM3 HW 06 is physically shorter then the HW 04 and the EKPM2. You can see near the microcontroller (square black part top middle) on the EKPM3 HW 04 there is a good amount of extra space. The HW 06 is more space optimized. If this was done to make the module fit in tighter spaces I don't know.

Another reason is cost reduction. I don't know if I see evidence of that here. I am pretty sure the EKPM3 costs less to produce than the M2 because the switch is now integrated with the driver, but I suspect the EKPM3 was designed primarily due to part obsolescence. However, reducing the board size and the size of the housing could be cost reduction. Less materials are used leading to less overhead. When the boards are produced a primary driver of the cost of the board itself is area. A primary driver of the PCB assembly (boards plus parts) are the number of unique components. This module must be used in millions of cars so even cents matter here.

Another reason is part obsolescence. Manufacturers don't make the parts on the board forever. Eventually the module needs to be redesigned to continue to be able to be produced. That is what I think happened with the EKPM2. The parts on the M3 are completely different, and definitely more modern.

Another reason is regulatory compliance changes. You can see on the bottom of the EKPM3 HW 06 there is a symbol for "lead free". The previous versions are not marked with the symbol in any way. RoHS regulation change over time. The EU has a set of standards and China has its own. I think the US largely uses the EU standards, but environmental compliance isn't my thing. I do know that RoHS II is much more strict than RoHS I was and this can drive changes to the design, even if it is just to use lead free solder because the exemption that allowed leaded solder to continue to be used is no longer valid.

You bring up an interesting point about the EKPM3 in the newer cars (F and G chassis). From looking at Real OEM it is not clear that the new modules will work in an place of an older one. The parts numbers of the new modules are not listed as "Supersedes". If you search for the current number for the E90: 16147407513. If you search for that number what you find is a "HW 07" version.

This is not the same as for the F or G chassis. For these cars you would find a 16147411596 (current) for earlier cars or a 16149452468 (current) for later cars. The earlier one uses a different revision number system such as "HWEL 000.001.003". The later one is difficult to find pictures of because the cars are so new. I did find pictures of 16148488591 (which was superseded by 16149452468) in an Ebay listing.

When I purchased an EKPM3 from Ebay, I ended up with 16147218339 which is a HW 04 version. I bought it because of the layout change from HW 04 to HW 06 appearing to be worse for thermals and because it was sure to work in my car (2007 E90 VB73) over one with a "HWEL" hardware revision number.

I suspect any EKPM3 or M2 will work with our cars, but I made sure to purchase a version Real OEM said was compatible. It would be interesting to pop the top off of one of the newer ones with the "HWEL" revision numbering system. I do not think the ones in the G chassis will work. They have a completely different connector, but maybe they are the same inside. Who knows.
 

ajm8127

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I have the same issue running a single 450. Only difference is mine hovers around 77-78 after WOT. I notice the car runs slightly rough after this happens. If I shut the car off and reset the fault it goes back to hovering around 72-73. Car runs noticeably smoother once it goes back to 72-73. I have had this problem on the original EKPM3 and a new reprogrammed EKPM3.
I have new low pressure sensors as well.

What fault? Do you mean DTC or do you mean in general as in the problem goes away when you shut the car off and turn it back on? Can someone get a log of this with AFR and low and high fuel pressure? Does this happen every single time you go WOT?

If anyone has this happen, check the car for a DTC before you turn the car off. Some DTCs will not illuminate the MIL.

INPA will also report the current EKP utilization from 1 to 100%. It is in "Actuator Controls 1" I think. You can command 0% or 100% fro INPA, or give control back to the DME where it should just report the current utilization. It would be interesting to monitor this when the problem occurs.
 

doublespaces

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Sounds like what happens when my car throws a code, the fuel pump goes to 100% duty cycle for what I presume is a fail safe if some kind and yes, it runs rough until I restart. Normally I get a much higher pressure but I also have a different fuel system/regulator.
 

fmorelli

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I have a friend that owns a BMW shop and is extremely tech savvy. Will ask him about possible backward compatibility on the EPKM3's. @ajm8127 I would not be surprised if many of your points are in the ballpark.

I'm snagging a couple more EKPM3's. The newer IC's rolled in today. I've got a couple LPFP buckets to rebuild as well with Walbro 535lph pumps, so slowly might actually get somewhere.

Filippo
 
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