DIY tuning
- Thread starter Sbrach
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Yes the attached log was from an AT car. As far as rail pressure, tweaking the VCV duty cycle table and adaption seem to have smoothed that out.
Made some more progress PID tuning added all the WG related tables I could find and used M2 values as a starting point. Still working on the post shift spike in boost although it doesn't really cause an issue other than the minor throttle closure and also need to figure out if I can get WGDC to 100% for spool. Need to find an S55 DCT flywheel as well because I'm getting false knock in 5 and 6 at about 21psi and 5700rpm.
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev24-pid-2?log=1&data=3-8-10-11-13-15-17-19-20-21-22-23-24-25&solo=8-10-13-15-17
Made some more progress PID tuning added all the WG related tables I could find and used M2 values as a starting point. Still working on the post shift spike in boost although it doesn't really cause an issue other than the minor throttle closure and also need to figure out if I can get WGDC to 100% for spool. Need to find an S55 DCT flywheel as well because I'm getting false knock in 5 and 6 at about 21psi and 5700rpm.
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev24-pid-2?log=1&data=3-8-10-11-13-15-17-19-20-21-22-23-24-25&solo=8-10-13-15-17
Made some more progress. Have a work-around for DCT flywheel noise but it reduces some built in safety so I'm still on the look out for an S55 flywheel. Still has a little spike post shift then an over-correction but no more throttle closure. There are some feed-forward tables that I think will help get post shift under control or it could just be that the I term is so wound up because i'm at this turbo's limit in this weather that it won't get any better with a slow reacting PWG. I looked at some stock logs I have and they have a similar spike and over-correct. Think I will focus on spool and vanos tuning now and not worry too much about post shift. It feels great in the car. Also, keep in mind this is with stock load to torque tables so the DCT is shifting phenomenal.
Logs are 2011 DCT 135i with Pure Stage 2, Vader Solutions Stage 2.5+ LPFP, VRSF Race IC and Outlet, custom inlet, Magnaflow full exhaust, custom DP, N20 plugs at .022, running E54 all DI. Ambient temp was 112F (44.44C).
2nd - 3rd - into 4th
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev-29-pid?log=0&data=3-4-11-13-17&solo=13-17
3rd - 4th - into 5th
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev-29-pid-0?log=0&data=3-4-11-13-17&solo=13-17
Logs are 2011 DCT 135i with Pure Stage 2, Vader Solutions Stage 2.5+ LPFP, VRSF Race IC and Outlet, custom inlet, Magnaflow full exhaust, custom DP, N20 plugs at .022, running E54 all DI. Ambient temp was 112F (44.44C).
2nd - 3rd - into 4th
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev-29-pid?log=0&data=3-4-11-13-17&solo=13-17
3rd - 4th - into 5th
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev-29-pid-0?log=0&data=3-4-11-13-17&solo=13-17
Sorry about the delayed reply. No not directed at you at all. Your info has been great. Thanks again for your findings so far. I hope soon I'll get a chance to work through the torque tables one-by-one. I'll wait a bit longer for an 8HP flash first so I don't need to under-report torque to get under TCU limits. I've been trying to resist temptation to modify the car until the TCU flash comes as the 440nm 3rd gear limit is atrocious. I don't mind the 400nm 6th limit as I don't really drive flat out in 6th anyway. I'm happy with the stock TCU calibration so I'll literally just change the 3rd gear limit to 500nm and 6th to 480nm and flash it back on.
It limits torque (reducing timing and/or load target). I'd prefer not to disable the intervention just in case the transmission requests torque limitation for other reasons (overtemp, slip or any other reason) that I do want the intervention to work. Also I don't have any time at the moment so happy to wait for XHP. I haven't put the downpipe in yet and undecided what I'm doing about the turbo. I was so, so disappointed when I found out my car was PWG (2014 F11 LCI 535i). It really messed up my plans for the car.
Thanks. Yeah I should start thinking about getting it done because damn it's slow compared to the 335i I had. The issue is I don't really like ANY of the aftermarket turbos out there. I'm tempted to just get a used EWG core and get my compressor housing machined for it.
I just got a full dealer update of all modules so I'll have a chat to Martial at MHD about supporting flashing of this latest ROM rather than flashing the older one and I'll start defining tables for this ROM.
I think the main benefit of the EWG as far as tuning is concerned is the larger turbine housing. EWG is nice but if they were the same size I don’t think it would make much difference. How crazy do you want to go with it? PS2 makes good power if you want to stay stock frame. If you want to go to a standard aftermarket turbo you have Motiv and Speedtech among others making bottom mount kits. Basically I’m saying the PWG isn’t really a disadvantage unless your plan was to stay stock turbo.
EWG compressor wheel is 5mm bigger which is a fair bit. PS2 is the other extreme and a bit too big and I don't like the clipped turbine wheel.
The turbine housing on the EWG is larger too was my understanding.
The PS2 has been pretty well proven on the N55. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend one. I’m pushing it’s limit now on my car though and am trying to figure out where to go next. Need to wait for boost season here in AZ and see if I’m happy with this turbo at its max in good weather. Honestly, I’m pretty sure I will end up upgrading regardless just to be able to continue the tuning development I’ve been working on.
The PS2 has been pretty well proven on the N55. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend one. I’m pushing it’s limit now on my car though and am trying to figure out where to go next. Need to wait for boost season here in AZ and see if I’m happy with this turbo at its max in good weather. Honestly, I’m pretty sure I will end up upgrading regardless just to be able to continue the tuning development I’ve been working on.
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The EWG dump pipe flange and outlet area is bigger but I don't think that'd make a difference. I think it's really the bigger comp wheel where the performance difference lies. I don't want or need the power the PS2 is capable of and a slightly smaller version of both wheels and a proper Garrett-style un-clipped turbine should give a decent response improvement over the PS2.
Another issue is I don't want to get a PS2 that's some some 8 year old E series core with 150,000km then return them my 4 year old 40,000km core.
I don’t think a clipped turbine is a bad thing in this application. It spools fine and makes more power literally everywhere. I think a lot of people take Garetts statement that you should never clip a turbine wheel a little too seriously.
Edit: you can have them build your core.
Edit: you can have them build your core.
It would be fine if I wanted to push it to the limit but I don't. I don't need the huge compressor, I don't need the huge turbine and I don't need it clipped. It's a verrry nice car and I don't want to spoil it with compromises. I only want to run 14psi flat with absolute best possible response.
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Latest PID rev is looking pretty good. 2nd-3rd-4th in 100+ degree F ambient temps. DCT is shifting great with stock L2T.
Cooler temps should put it on target up top or at least reduce WGDC. Also need an Injen intake. A similar local car with similar mods besides the intake requires much less WGDC for the same numbers. Note the zero timing corrections, minimal timing intervention during shift, fast recovery post shift, and 100% wgdc for spool. Thanks for everyone that helped and shared information with me over the last year.
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev120?log=0&data=3-9-13-15-17-18-19-20-21-22-23&solo=12-15
Cooler temps should put it on target up top or at least reduce WGDC. Also need an Injen intake. A similar local car with similar mods besides the intake requires much less WGDC for the same numbers. Note the zero timing corrections, minimal timing intervention during shift, fast recovery post shift, and 100% wgdc for spool. Thanks for everyone that helped and shared information with me over the last year.
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/rev120?log=0&data=3-9-13-15-17-18-19-20-21-22-23&solo=12-15
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Haven’t posted an update in a while.
Dug into the compressor characteristic / turbine power calculations a bit and put together this. Excuse the MSPaint skills ....
KW value from compressor characteristic table corrected with PID based on boost error and exhaust target flow then goes into exhaust flow, temp, and pressure models to get a WG/Turbine distribution factor. This distribution factor is turned into WGDC with the WG Position model and then the spring in the actuator is compensated for with the WGFEDER table. This “base WGDC” value is then blended with the feed forward tables. That value is summed with the altitude correction, pressure dynamics correction, and offset by gear. This value goes into the adaption function, a damping function and is then added to the output of the I controller. Note, this is a second I controller, the first adds kW to the turbine power value and uses exhaust gas mass flow. The I controller most are familiar with is the second one which adds or subtracts WGDC and uses mass airflow and boost error as axes. There are various limiters, most of which are raised in the stock M2 BIN. For the most part I have been successful leaving most of the PID set as in the M2 bin and modifying/rescaling just the compressor characteristic table with the P, I, and D tables zero’d to get boost close to target. Then turning PID back on. I found one of what I thought was my best revisions made about 8psi less with PID turned off. Obviously the compressor table wasn’t right and PID was just adding a ton. Would really be nice to be able to log the individual PID terms like N54.
A couple more notes. WGDC Base log channel appears to be the output of the compressor characteristic table in kW. I don’t believe it is WGDC.
I’m not sure what WGDC after PID is.
In my bin I’ve rescaled the WG position model to a linear 1-100% and zero’d the WGFEDER table (how an EWG car is). I know this is incorrect as the PWG model is not linear because the WGDC does not result in a linear change in WG position but I personally have found it easier to tune this way.
There’s a lot more I’m leaving out I’m sure but just wanted to spark up the PID tuning discussion again.
Spool is great, boost follows target no problem, but it still spikes a few PSI post shift on DCT and AT cars. The WG tables for post shift are all only active on MT. @LamboLover you mentioned your custom boost control strategy on GTR resolves a similar issue. Any insight?
Dug into the compressor characteristic / turbine power calculations a bit and put together this. Excuse the MSPaint skills ....
KW value from compressor characteristic table corrected with PID based on boost error and exhaust target flow then goes into exhaust flow, temp, and pressure models to get a WG/Turbine distribution factor. This distribution factor is turned into WGDC with the WG Position model and then the spring in the actuator is compensated for with the WGFEDER table. This “base WGDC” value is then blended with the feed forward tables. That value is summed with the altitude correction, pressure dynamics correction, and offset by gear. This value goes into the adaption function, a damping function and is then added to the output of the I controller. Note, this is a second I controller, the first adds kW to the turbine power value and uses exhaust gas mass flow. The I controller most are familiar with is the second one which adds or subtracts WGDC and uses mass airflow and boost error as axes. There are various limiters, most of which are raised in the stock M2 BIN. For the most part I have been successful leaving most of the PID set as in the M2 bin and modifying/rescaling just the compressor characteristic table with the P, I, and D tables zero’d to get boost close to target. Then turning PID back on. I found one of what I thought was my best revisions made about 8psi less with PID turned off. Obviously the compressor table wasn’t right and PID was just adding a ton. Would really be nice to be able to log the individual PID terms like N54.
A couple more notes. WGDC Base log channel appears to be the output of the compressor characteristic table in kW. I don’t believe it is WGDC.
I’m not sure what WGDC after PID is.
In my bin I’ve rescaled the WG position model to a linear 1-100% and zero’d the WGFEDER table (how an EWG car is). I know this is incorrect as the PWG model is not linear because the WGDC does not result in a linear change in WG position but I personally have found it easier to tune this way.
There’s a lot more I’m leaving out I’m sure but just wanted to spark up the PID tuning discussion again.
Spool is great, boost follows target no problem, but it still spikes a few PSI post shift on DCT and AT cars. The WG tables for post shift are all only active on MT. @LamboLover you mentioned your custom boost control strategy on GTR resolves a similar issue. Any insight?
Always impressed. How much time does it take you to wade through all of this?
On the R35 GT-R, the factory control at least with the tables available in 2009 gave a spike in WGDC after a gearchange. This was the cause of the boost spike. Once the WGDC dropped immediately to what it should have been at the engine speed post change, the spike disappeared.