Getting into maintenance

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
Hello All,

I've had my E60 since 2018 and since its mostly healthy I've decided to keep it running. This means I'm looking at doing some major maintenance in the coming months. I started to get a rough idle and traced it to one leaky injector, so those need replaced. I'll just have to suck it up and buy index 12s from FCP. I was hoping the price would go down but that doesn't look like it will be happening.

When I went stage 1, I found a lot of oil in the charge pipe. I know the PCV system can cause some but the amount makes me think there is another source and I suspect the turbos. I'm using an MHD OTS tune so if I want to keep doing that I'll just replace with new stock turbos or slight upgrades, like the ones that have a TD04 thrust bearing. Otherwise GC lites would probably be the biggest I would go but then i would need a custom tune (right?). My thought is I want to get as much ancillary work done as I can while the turbos are off, so I am definitely getting downpipes and maybe inlets at the same time as the turbos. Outlets will come when I decide to upgrade the intercooler.

The last item is the low pressure pump. I can hear it turning on all the time because it wants to prime when I unlock the doors/look at the car/when the DME random number generator tells it to turn on. It has started to sound strained when priming so I want to replace it before it fails. Eventually i want to run flex fuel so a dual pump setup would probably future-proof me the best. Unfortunately my options seem limited since the only dual pump drop in option I have found is the Spool stage 3 for E60. Fortunately that solution looks pretty good.

I'll probably do injectors first, then pump, and turbos last. I think that's pretty much in order of difficulty. Am I thinking right about the pump and turbos? The Spool stage 3 looks good, has anyone had experience with it? What have people here done for turbo replacements and using ots tunes? Let me know, guys. I'll keep you updated on how the maintenance is going.

Edit: consolidating some info here.
Mileage is 194k. I've had the car since 173k and change oil every 5. I have installed: Boost side catch can, aluminum charge pipe and turbosmart bypass valves, DCIs, eldor coils, generic (champion) plugs, CP to throttle body gasket (this was missing when I got the car), TB to intake manifold gasket. I have new intake manifold gaskets but they looked new when I cleaned the intake ports so I left the existing ones on. Intake valves have been CRC cleaned and compression test passed with all cylinders above 125psi. Also got a new battery and coded that. Oil analysis came back with a shining report and they recommended extending my change interval (I won't). I use Rotella T6 and the Mann filters.
 
Last edited:

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,541
Boston
Do the injectors 1st and code them.

Your fuel pump is probably fine. Do some logging. If the LPFP does not drop during a pull it is fine.

Oil in the charge pipe is not a large cause of concern...per se...do you have to add oil between oil changes?

Only replace the turbos if they actually need to be replaced. Pure or RB make very reliable replacement turbos, I would steer clear of VTT. I would do the downpipes, inlets, outlets, turbos, BMS or VRSF race intercooler, and a chargpipe with BOV(upgraded to 1/4 inch line from intake manifold walnut blast at same time) all at the same time, IF you are actually going to replace the turbos that is. While you are in there do it all, its easier/cheaper doing it all at once, trust me.

Custom tune costs next to nothing so yes get one, you WILL need one if you do turbos or inlets.

IF you really are going to replace your turbos think about doing the water pump. It's expensive and you are going to be right in there and it will only take an extra hour of labor. They are known to fail.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: K_Troopa

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
Thank you for your insight!

I don't understand what you mean by the 1/4 " line from the intake manifold. The vacuum line that actuates the BPVs?

I'll do a log and check the lpfp. I don't know when/if the turbos have been replaced. I got the car at 170k miles and it has almost 200k now. I have had to add oil once and I change it every 5k. I have the boost side catch can but it only catches like 2oz of oil between changes.

I was not aware that inlets need a tune. I already got a charge pipe from evolution racewerks when I did stage 1, along with new plugs and eldor coils. I did a compression test last weekend and passed all cylinders, too. I've also cleaned the intake valves with CRC cleaner which worked... okay. I'll definitely want to do a proper walnut blast eventually but I think that's kind of a waste as long as the engine is breathing so much oil.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: Torgus

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,541
Boston
3/8 fitting/line to be specific. The line from the intake manifold to the BOV.

Yes, inlets need tune from my understanding. A custom tune is cheap, get one.
 

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
Ok I know that line. Instead of getting a bov I got turbosmart bypass valves. I could run a larger vacuum line from the manifold to where the T is for the valves. What does a bigger line do; better valve response time?
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,541
Boston
Ok I know that line. Instead of getting a bov I got turbosmart bypass valves. I could run a larger vacuum line from the manifold to where the T is for the valves. What does a bigger line do; better valve response time?

Yes, Tial BOVs need the larger VAC source to function properly and be as responsive as they are supposed to be.
 

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
Great news for me! I already have 5/6 index 12s. The one that is leaking is a 12 and I have an 11 in there, too. I'll replace the 11 and the leaker, which is a lot easier to swallow than getting the whole set of 6. Ordering tonight!

I haven't had time to log the lpfp yet- my first son was born Sunday so I'm tending to him and wife. He will need a properly running car to ride around in, though.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: doublespaces

fmorelli

Brigadier General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,659
Virginia
Good initial list. Highly recommend you replace the vacuum lines from turbos to solenoids to vac canisters to vac pump. Cheap. Go with a high quality silicone vac line. You can do a search here to find suppliers and size. On the BOV ... I'd google that too and see what they say about vac line size on the N54.

I didn't see mileage in your posts.

Also note that turbos can be rebuilt, depending on what you want to do and spend. $1k with RB Turbo or thereabouts, and you can do some mild upgrades in that $1k zip code. Best thing if you want to consider, is call Rob on the phone and talk to him. It's best way to communicate with him.

You probably need motor mounts (and likely don't know it). Assume you did valve cover gasket recently given injectors. Walnut blast yet? 30k or so is about right - it's a good time to consider externalizing PCV system and blocking low-side head ports.

Good luck,

Filippo
 
  • 1Agree
  • 1Like
Reactions: K_Troopa and Torgus

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
I'll replace the vac lines. Like you said, it is cheap and easy. Engine mounts sound reasonable. I am noticing some vibration at idle but chalked it up to that bad injector.

I have not had the valve cover off. I know that gasket is a common maintenance item, though. I was hoping to find an aluminum cover and get rid of the crap plastic one, getting external pcv at the same time and closing the ports. From what Torgus has said about the turbos, the pcv might be where my intake oil is coming from, although it just seems like a lot to me (based on my non-BMW previous experience). I'm not going to walnut blast until that problem is solved. I did CRC cleaner which got about 90% of the gunk off and I'm not spending to walnut blast when I'm still breathing oil that will ruin the cleaning after 1000 miles.

I added some other info to my first post since you had some questions about mileage and previous maintenance items. I'll keep it up there for ease of reference.
 

fmorelli

Brigadier General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,659
Virginia
Dang, diesel mileage territory. Impressive. Any codes being thrown? How's oil pan gasket? Oil filter housing leaking at the block? How are the pulleys and belts? On the plugs, good to put those on the list to change soon (30k miles or so is about right) and you should probably do 1-step colder plugs NGK (ILZKBR7B8DG / 95770).

What do you know about the maintenance history? The engines are stout, as long as they are cared for. It's the peripheral stuff that wears out over time, and shortens when the cars turn up the power and the throttle pedal.

You might consider changing the title of this thread and add 294k miles ... that will get a few people's attention!

I did my low side PCV system in parallel to the walnut blast. The head ports get plugged, which is in the intake runners, so basically it is all in the same place. RB Turbo has a kit, and you need to add a catch can. There are DIY's here and elsewhere. There is some planning (and budgeting) to consider - it's nice to group things together where stuff comes apart. For example: valve cover, plugs, low-side PCV, walnut blast is a nice package. Add to that group the oil housing block if you need to replace that gasket.

Filippo
 
  • 1Agree
Reactions: Torgus

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
ONE hundred ninety five, not 295. Sorry I must have miskeyed. Carfax says 1 previous owner and 10 years of maintenance at the local dealer. Belts, oil pan gasket, filter housing gasket, and coolant hoses all look new or recent, so that was either done as the last service by previous owner or by the used dealer I got it from. It has index 11/12s so I suspect those were replaced under recall sometime before 120k. I'm hoping hpfp and water pump were also replaced at some point but idk.

The only code I have is for a window regulator. No engine codes and never limp mode. I'm guessing this was some executive's wife's car. The paint might be the worst maintained part and the alignment was all jacked up.

The Vehicular DIY channel on YouTube has similar mileage on his 335 and he is doing e85 mix tunes, so I figure I'm good as long as I stay ahead of stuff breaking from age.
 
Last edited:

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
Of course 2 days after saying no codes and never limp I get limp mode pulling out of the garage.

I was able to clear codes and ran fine afterward but i got: 29E0, 2A2B, and 29F1. My theories are leaky injector getting worse, weak fuel pump, and/or sensor going bad. Also Filippo might be right and my plugs are going after ~25k miles. Anyone had these same symptoms?

Injectors are on the way anyway. I'll do plugs at the same time, and then I'll feel confident doing some wot pulls to log the fuel.
 

fmorelli

Brigadier General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,659
Virginia
Since you have the injectors coming (remember they need to be coded individually to the car!), I start there and with the aforementioned plugs.

Safe gap is 0.022" Getting an accurate gap matters, especially when running tunes and upgrades. I used to do these with a brass hammer and feeler gauges, but found getting consistent accuracy difficult. A screw-down gap tool solved that problem. A few other paranoid observations (from the land of been there). When you pull the plugs, inspect the spark plug hole land surface on the head. You are looking for oil/carbon. They should be perfectly clean. Oil can be a gasket leak, carbon can be a lack of seal from spark plug to land. Clean that area completely (a grab tool with some blue paper towel soaked with carb/brake cleaner will do the job). You want those plugs sealing - both a smooth surface and a proper torque setting, for which debris will interfere with both. Obviously set to torque spec. Some people go back and check torque after a short period of time.

For your vacuum lines, I pulled info from my build log. 12-feet of 3.5mm, 550 deg F rated (http://www.boostcontroller.com/TurboLogic-Vacuum-Hose-3-5MM-p/tls-vh-3.5.htm) will give you plenty. Highly suggest you do these. Just take care when removing the originals from the solenoids, so as not to break the plastic male ends. Best way is to gently cut old hose along the parallel of the plastic barb. Some times the hose can be sticky, just peel it back and remove gently.

How old are the pre-cat 02 sensors? The hard part when you get to 100k+ miles is that various things get old, and all codes don't resolve one-to-one to a specific item. As 02 sensors age, their accuracy wanes. 02 sensors can also be a factor on the codes you are seeing. Since you have injectors and plugs on the way, start there. Change the vacuum lines (cheap and easy).

On 02 sensors, should they be on the chopping block, run the Bosch part instead of the geniune BMW. Same thing and you will save a good chunk of money. On your car I believ ethey are Bosch 17202 and Bosch 17447. Many of us buy from FCPEuro - super company, and lifetime warranty on everything including wear items.

The good news about all these parts, is that they are on the standard list of what one does on the upgrade path. So they are money generally well spent. One final thing, especially with mods and tune, these cars can care about what fuel you are using. Not sure where you are but if available, a few tanks of Shell Super; would be interesting to see if any codes depart.

Hope something here is helpful to you, and good luck!

Filippo
 
Last edited:
  • 1Informative
Reactions: Torgus

fmorelli

Brigadier General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,659
Virginia
BTW brand new recall. I suspect a fair chance your car was built in this time frame? For injectors. If you are in this window, contact your dealer. I assume you ordered your injectors. I would not open them, for the possibility of returning them.

Filippo


Page 1.jpg

Page 2.jpg
 
  • 1Informative
Reactions: Torgus

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
Dude. Replace all six injectors. Hell yeah. I'll check the dealer and see if they can cover it. Can they deny service based on my intake or tune?

Edit: I'm manufacture date 9/07 so I look good. Will find out Monday...
 
Last edited:

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,541
Boston
Dude. Replace all six injectors. Hell yeah. I'll check the dealer and see if they can cover it. Can they deny service based on my intake or tune?
Usually for recalls they do not give a damn.

Wish my build fell in that injector recall window I am outside by 2 months! Bullshit!

I was going to throw in old injectors and resell the new ones from bmw as I have an fcp lifetime on my index 12s. Oh well.

Who has fuel injector recalls on a 13 year old car? Was it a lawsuit or something that made this happen? Who is the OEM on the injectors bmw?
 

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
BMW service desk doesn't know anything about this recall. Service rep I talked to said he doesn't have anything for my VIN and nothing for that SIB # AND no bulletins on 1/17. Has anyone had any confirmed luck with it?

Edit! Just got a call back and apparently there was a bulletin issued TODAY about replacing injectors but the dealers have not been instructed to start servicing yet. Maybe what is posted above is a draft copy. Rep told me he didn't know if I would still qualify since I had all 6 injectors replaced under a previous recall (news to me, but that must be why I have all 11/12s now).

I'll keep one of the FCP injectors and install it as a band-aid. If this recall is legit I can switch back in the leaker and get the service done, plus have the FCP as a spare backup.

I was able to get some more info on the previous service to my car, though. My HPFP was replaced under recall in 2010 at 42,000 miles. After 150k miles on the pump, it is probably time for me to replace it.
 
Last edited:

K_Troopa

Lurker
Jul 11, 2018
13
I'm getting more worried about my car. Last 2 starts I have the car on lift symbol and clock is 00.00.0000. This is what it did when I needed to replace the battery.

Also getting really ugly startup surging where the rpm cycles between 1000-500 about a dozen times and sounds/feels like it's going to stall. I get 29A0 and 2a2b. I can clear codes after engine is warm and no problems after.

I would think this is just the injector I know is bad but now my clock is going out. What is going on?

Edit: I had the obd cable plugged in with the car sitting so I unplugged that. I'll see tomorrow morning if that fixed the clock issue.

Edit 2: unplugged the obd cable and that seems to have solved the electric issue; probably a noob mistake. I also stopped getting codes at startup, so that injector is wavering right at the borderline of causing codes. New injector is languishing in FedEx smartpost and it better get here for me to install on the weekend.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: Torgus
Top