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[email protected]

800HP Club (N54)
Platinum Vendor
Oct 24, 2016
767
Scottsdale, AZ
Ha! It's all in the calibration. The analogy isn't quite correct but think of a large turbo with increased boost as RPM raises to target a rising torque curve all the way to redline. You'd need to move a ton of air up top to do so, and you'd leave a ton of potential on the table in the midrange rpm's. That is not completely dissimilar to what I'm doing here. ~60hz or so I'm pulling down 15dB of response to keep it on target down below 20hz, and be able to play at decent volumes down there. Remember, for every octave you drop (halving of frequency), you need 4x the excursion to play at the same sound level, so it's easy to "run out of steam" so to speak if you truly want something that drops very low.

But yes, there is a nice tactile component to being so nearfield. Love it.

Chris
 
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R.G.

Lieutenant
Nov 17, 2016
663
Henderson, NV
Ha! It's all in the calibration. The analogy isn't quite correct but think of a large turbo with increased boost as RPM raises to target a rising torque curve all the way to redline. You'd need to move a ton of air up top to do so, and you'd leave a ton of potential on the table in the midrange rpm's. That is not completely dissimilar to what I'm doing here. ~60hz or so I'm pulling down 15dB of response to keep it on target down below 20hz, and be able to play at decent volumes down there. Remember, for every octave you drop (halving of frequency), you need 4x the excursion to play at the same sound level, so it's easy to "run out of steam" so to speak if you truly want something that drops very low.

But yes, there is a nice tactile component to being so nearfield. Love it.

Chris

That...is actually a great analogy. Did not know that. I do know 4 JBL 12s will knock some windows out cranked to 11 tho. That is some serious equipment.
 

Asbjorn

Sergeant
Mar 10, 2018
355
Europe, based in China
@[email protected] ... I think you have a problem ... :sunglasses:

Filippo
You do not have a real problem until you do something like this.

I remember the first time I heard the Dali Megalines, (24 woofers, each 6in or so), and the lack of low end bass was shocking. You either need very large bass units, or a lot of filtering to get a flat response to 20hz in a normal listening room. It is just physics, and not the fault of @[email protected]

Audio is very religious though. As humans we are good a filtering out noise, but often feel different about different types of distortion, which means we are not objective when evaluating sound quality. Putting in a filter may give you a flatter frequency and time response, but could offer it's own coloring of the sound. Just like different cables, resistors and capacitors sound different to our ears. Personally I typically feel that digital equalizers take away some soul. On top of that our ears are not even linear, meaning that at low sound levels, we can't hear bass as well as we can at higher sound levels. This means if you play at low volumes you are somewhat allowed to turn up the bass a little (activate loudness), but then you need to turn it off again when you turn up the volume...

More than ten years ago, my work was to develop large anechoic chambers and then to attenuate structure borne sound in hearing aids. That's when you pull out all the advanced sound measuring equipment, computer models etc. As for hifi, just realize what you are trying to achieve is an emotion. And even a small bluetooth speaker will offer that. Having access to sound is infinetely better than no access, but the gains from there are minimal. The right company, mood etc then becomes more important. That being said, the hobby of building things, playing with electronics, discussing stuff on forums etc is really fun in and by itself. Just like discussing different turbos is fun, but actually starting to go fast goes from being exciting to downright scary and just strains the neck. :tearsofjoy: Very loud deep bass is not actually enjoyable at all either.

But bass is important. Especially in a car. I can enjoy music without a strong bass almost anywhere but in my car. Not sure why. Maybe its the noise.
 
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[email protected]

800HP Club (N54)
Platinum Vendor
Oct 24, 2016
767
Scottsdale, AZ
@[email protected] ... I think you have a problem ... :sunglasses:

Filippo
You don't know the half of it. Still working through the design but the main system will have somewhere between 28 and 36 12's when complete.

Asbjorn said:

Yeah that's a lot of surface area but without EQ most 6-1/2's are not going to dig that deep no matter how many of them you have.

Aside: Tangband W6-1139SIF is a really REALLY fun little bugger that is hard to model but goes shockingly deep in the right enclosure. My vote for "most fun" 6.5" without doing anything crazy or super expensive. Good for a normal person computer subwoofer. Ok, maybe two of them. Probably wouldn't use them for anything besides a sub but check 'em out: https://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w6-1139sif-6-1-2-paper-cone-subwoofer-speaker--264-919

Audio is religious, but there are ways of filtering out a lot of that "stuff" if you have a mind to. I was subjected to the witchcraft side of audio very early in my career and drew strong parallels to my own (overtly) religious upbringing, and knew that while for some people salvation lies there, for me, it didn't. It is absolutely amazing and worth understanding, though, that most of these people believe everything they're saying (and hearing what they think they do), as the human mind is amazingly capable of filling in blanks, focusing on certain aspects of sound, and in general is very susceptible to being fooled. The test engineer in me is not amused, the pragmatist in me says hell, if you think your cables make sound more enjoyable and then you go enjoy your music more... does it harm anyone? Nah.

It was my own blind testing of both my own hearing capability as well as hgh end equipment, along with my increased understanding of ideal frequency responses that lead me away from signal purity/minimalist systems, although I am not so stubborn that I don't enjoy lesser systems (I have a few... and really like the vintage systems... just a different vibe I get).

B&K's 1974 paper "Relevant loudspeaker tests in studios in hi-fi dealer' demo room in the home etc. -using 1/3 octave, pink-weighted, random noise" article lead me down the path to start what would end up being a very firm belief that room eq is all but mandatory in nearly 100% of the rooms I've encountered. I have a pdf if any of you are interested. Hours spent measuring confirms this belief.

Taking that and graduating towards the Harmon Target Curve has been fun and rewarding. Now I'm playing with fairly advanced algorithms to ensure multiple subwoofers play nicely across a variety of seating positions.
 
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