Technical Hydra Performance 135 Leichtbau State of the Art Thread

bantam

Specialist
Nov 20, 2017
99
Ha, I knew it! You're the man. I actually have the VRSF 7" HD intercooler for both less weight, less blocking of my other coolers and less pressure drop right now but both of your solutions sound excellent. The W2A setup would be nice as mentioned for the drag strip, but I'm also going to be stripping a lot of weight from the car so a well priced IC similar to the VRSF one but half the weight would also be killer so keep us updated for sure!

@ShocknAwe and group, I follow someone on IG who has done a successful N54 swap into an e36 318ti body that is running the S55 A2W system. I'd imagine he has it hardwired and running off of a switch or something but I'll ask him how hes running it just because I'm curious anyway. Like was mentioned above I think the issue was getting it to run with the fan based off of certain driving conditions, I think if one were to wire the pump to full tilt or off itd work fine for racing. Getting it to function like an S55 on a streetcar is the challenge there I'm sure, but I doubt Omar or anyone doing this completely DIY is looking to do it on a DD.
With the help of some documents from [email protected], RSL was able to locate a pre-existing (unused) DME table which triggers the radiator fan based on IAT, I have been testing it for the last few days and it seems to work very well, planning to update my thread soon.

The pump running continuously seems to work fine, though you are wasting energy by running it unnecessarily.
 

Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
572
Chicago
With the help of some documents from [email protected], RSL was able to locate a pre-existing (unused) DME table which triggers the radiator fan based on IAT, I have been testing it for the last few days and it seems to work very well, planning to update my thread soon.

The pump running continuously seems to work fine, though you are wasting energy by running it unnecessarily.
Wow, that's really cool actually. If I ever come across a cheap S55 a2w exchanger I might have to snag it then since everything else is basically PnP, right? Apologies to Omar if this is too off topic and we can move our discussion back to your thread, but I think he may be interested in the same.
 

bantam

Specialist
Nov 20, 2017
99
The S55 charge cooler is plug and play (fits within the hood and integrates to the IM mounting points), and the aftermarket aluminum S55 Charge cooler to TB charge pipe is "plug and play" once you weld on a BOV. Feel free to message me or post in my thread if you have questions.

Hydra, exciting to see you pushing the envelope, and thanks for posting the link to the controller, it looks like a good option!
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,416
Virginia
With the help of some documents from [email protected], RSL was able to locate a pre-existing (unused) DME table which triggers the radiator fan based on IAT, I have been testing it for the last few days and it seems to work very well, planning to update my thread soon.
Does it open the thermostat wide open and kick the water pump full on as well? I'm trolling for a patch for running road race mode :sunglasses:

Filippo
 
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bantam

Specialist
Nov 20, 2017
99
No, it leaves all other cooling tables untouched and does not trigger until the car is out of warmup mode.
 

Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
572
Chicago
The S55 charge cooler is plug and play (fits within the hood and integrates to the IM mounting points), and the aftermarket aluminum S55 Charge cooler to TB charge pipe is "plug and play" once you weld on a BOV. Feel free to message me or post in my thread if you have questions.

Hydra, exciting to see you pushing the envelope, and thanks for posting the link to the controller, it looks like a good option!
Oh wow, I didnt know the S55 charge piping all fit PnP style too. Having to get a BOV adapter welded in is child's play imo compared to a lot of stuff all of us already have done to our cars. What size are the hotside charge pipes/turbo outlets for the S55? If they're sufficiently sized for upgraded twins then getting an adapter for whatever turbos you want to run also sounds pretty easy imo, otherwise even custom fabbed pipes sound easy since the piping is so much shorter.

@Hydra Performance , knowing that, is the 450hp thing the only reason you're choosing to skip the S55 cooler? I'm not up on the current gen M3/M4 modding scene to be fair, but do all those high HP, 9-10sec S55s usually run one of the $2000 upgraded charge coolers? I'd have to imagine with the S55s capabilities after a tune and two-three bolt ons theres a good chunk of people pushing 5-600whp on the stock heat exchanger? Is the MB one you picked that much more efficient, or what is your reasoning for going that route?

Does it open the thermostat wide open and kick the water pump full on as well? I'm trolling for a patch for running road race mode :sunglasses:

Filippo
Filippo, have you taken a look at the controller Omar linked in the previous post? I just gave it a quick peek and it sounds like it may be exactly what you and Barry are looking for in regards to cooling for the track. How it'd interact with the DME I have no idea (I didnt read the instructions or anything, just glanced over the features and selling points) but if you dont get limp mode codes from using it to "hijack" the WP and fan it sounds like an easy solution for better maintaining target temps and could be adjusted back down for DDing as well. Maybe I read it wrong, but it certainly sounded like what you're looking for - though I dont know if it can control our MAP thermostat too or not. Maybe that's where the Mishimoto low temp thermostat swap could come into play since the DME should technically treat it as if it were the higher temp thermo, no?
 
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bantam

Specialist
Nov 20, 2017
99
Oh wow, I didnt know the S55 charge piping all fit PnP style too. Having to get a BOV adapter welded in is child's play imo compared to a lot of stuff all of us already have done to our cars. What size are the hotside charge pipes/turbo outlets for the S55? If they're sufficiently sized for upgraded twins then getting an adapter for whatever turbos you want to run also sounds pretty easy imo, otherwise even custom fabbed pipes sound easy since the piping is so much shorter.

@Hydra Performance , knowing that, is the 450hp thing the only reason you're choosing to skip the S55 cooler? I'm not up on the current gen M3/M4 modding scene to be fair, but do all those high HP, 9-10sec S55s usually run one of the $2000 upgraded charge coolers? I'd have to imagine with the S55s capabilities after a tune and two-three bolt ons theres a good chunk of people pushing 5-600whp on the stock heat exchanger? Is the MB one you picked that much more efficient, or what is your reasoning for going that route?


Filippo, have you taken a look at the controller Omar linked in the previous post? I just gave it a quick peek and it sounds like it may be exactly what you and Barry are looking for in regards to cooling for the track. How it'd interact with the DME I have no idea (I didnt read the instructions or anything, just glanced over the features and selling points) but if you dont get limp mode codes from using it to "hijack" the WP and fan it sounds like an easy solution for better maintaining target temps and could be adjusted back down for DDing as well. Maybe I read it wrong, but it certainly sounded like what you're looking for - though I dont know if it can control our MAP thermostat too or not. Maybe that's where the Mishimoto low temp thermostat swap could come into play since the DME should technically treat it as if it were the higher temp thermo, no?
I have attached the system layout photos for stock turbos. Hacked up stock pipes, adapted to 2”, then 90 degree silicone elbows mates to 2x 45 degree bent pipes, connected to charge cooler with 2”x2.25” coupler
 

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Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
292
@Panzerfaust

A simple visual comparison is all I needed to decide that the stock M4 cooler is undersized for my needs, the AMG piece simply dwarfs it. Don't forget that the M4 GTS resorted to water injection for the additional boost/power increase, which indicates to me that IATs would have been too high otherwise ( = ignition retard = higher EGTs = no bueno for cat durability). Also keep in mind that I am pump gas only, and don't have the luxury of ethanol blends to compensate for an undersized intercooler. Plus, as I mentioned earlier I'm not a fan of how the charge has to make a tight-radius 180-degree bend to get into the TB. The AMG intercooler would package a lot "cleaner" as far as I can tell, at the hypothetical cost of marginally more charge volume than the S55 setup. Or I could just bite the bullet and spec a lightweight (but effective) tube and fin 7" core, already have a pair of suitable endtanks handy here. Neither are an immediate priority atm, as I currently have more pressing concerns to attend to...
 
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ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
711
SC
@Panzerfaust

A simple visual comparison is all I needed to decide that the stock M4 cooler is undersized for my needs, the AMG piece simply dwarfs it. Don't forget that the M4 GTS resorted to water injection for the additional boost/power increase, which indicates to me that IATs would have been too high otherwise ( = ignition retard = higher EGTs = no bueno for cat durability). Also keep in mind that I am pump gas only, and don't have the luxury of ethanol blends to compensate for an undersized intercooler. Plus, as I mentioned earlier I'm not a fan of how the charge has to make a tight-radius 180-degree bend to get into the TB. The AMG intercooler would package a lot "cleaner" as far as I can tell, at the hypothetical cost of marginally more charge volume than the S55 setup. Or I could just bite the bullet and spec a lightweight (but effective) tube and fin 7" core, already have a pair of suitable endtanks handy here. Neither are an immediate priority atm, as I currently have more pressing concerns to attend to...
Of particular interest to me is it looks like the AMG unit will sit lower in the engine bay as well as opposed to a W2A pimple on the top of the engine a la S55.
 
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Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
292
Some more teaser pics for y'all...


Cast aluminum merge for the outlets:
cast merge.jpeg


Also picked up a few tasty trinkets:

58818450_356954588259774_5477286541782941696_n.jpg


1M knuckle on the L and M4 knuckle on the R:
58430276_476160322922418_6871783657388900352_n.jpg


M4 knuckle top and 1M knuckle bottom:

58577503_2313506352305399_194887581324804096_n.jpg




Going to be doing a more detailed geometrical comparison of both, but from what I can tell so far, ride height is ~4-5mm higher on the M4 knuckle for a given shock length, which means that the roll center is somewhat lower for a given ride height. Will compare KPI, and ackermann later but the most useful thing to note is that the caliper spacing = stock non-M 135, unlike the 1M which is 16mm longer @ 137.8mm vs 121.8mm. which is useful if you wish to run 345mm CSL front rotors with the stock brembo 6-pots up front like I do.


Oh and did I mention that I installed a 1M rear subframe with sphericals on the inner camber arm mount + trailiing arm mounts + 1M 21.5mm sway bar (1kg lighter and 9lb/in stiffer in torsion than the 20mm Whiteline bar in case anyone cares). Also temporarily installed 350mm 1M rear rotors + E82 Brembos as a temporary measure until I figure out which direction I want to go. Still plenty more to do before the third race of the season on the 5th of May... Pic below, don't laugh at the rust ring, could have easily been avoided via judicious use of spray paint, but like I said its all temporary :)

58375926_2037885716341031_8903923102501568512_n.jpg

58443464_1291927940964596_2806136961813708800_n.jpg
 
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berns

Corporal
Jan 15, 2018
127
Will be interested to see how you feel with that big rear sway. I had a lot of issues getting power down with that thing. Way more planted on throttle corner exit with the smaller Eibach sway.
 

Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
292
@berns,

A big(ger) rear sway bar usually goes hand in hand with a clutch-type LSD as opposed to a torsen diff. And although its a given that more rear bar (or even more rear spring for that matter) makes corner exit traction worse, a 114lb/in wheel rate contribution (or ~52% of my spring rate @ the wheels just to put things into perspective) isn't much - after all this is the OEM part fitted on the highest-performance variants, so it can't be all that detrimental...
Enough numbers now, and on to real world experience. The last time I drove my car in earnest, I had just installed a pair of fresh rear RE71Rs datestamped 4018 (previous pair gave up the ghost after <2k mi), and the car was absolutely phenomenal. Granted it was still running the Whiteline rear swaybar, but at a (measured) 105lb/in wheel rate, the difference vs the 1M bar might as well amount to a gnat's fart. Car explodes out of turns, albeit at a non-zero angle of attack, and I can confidently say that with the new/fresh rubber, the car has more corner exit traction than its ever had at any point in the past. So much in fact, that there was one instance when I actually had to lift in 3rd because such was the grip I was scared I was about to pop an axle...
Oh and on an unrelated note, a friend with a cammed E46 M3 and 4.11 gears recently remarked that he felt my car pulled harder in 6th than his does in 3rd, and that's going uphill :p
 
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Dmak

Specialist
Nov 19, 2017
57
Any more info on the 345mm front csl rotors set up? You custom made caliper brackets?
 

gmx

Specialist
Dec 8, 2017
55
Going to be doing a more detailed geometrical comparison of both, but from what I can tell so far, ride height is ~4-5mm higher on the M4 knuckle for a given shock length, which means that the roll center is somewhat lower for a given ride height. Will compare KPI, and ackermann later but the most useful thing to note is that the caliper spacing = stock non-M 135, unlike the 1M which is 16mm longer @ 137.8mm vs 121.8mm. which is useful if you wish to run 345mm CSL front rotors with the stock brembo 6-pots up front like I do.


Oh and did I mention that I installed a 1M rear subframe with sphericals on the inner camber arm mount + trailiing arm mounts + 1M 21.5mm sway bar (1kg lighter and 9lb/in stiffer in torsion than the 20mm Whiteline bar in case anyone cares). Also temporarily installed 350mm 1M rear rotors + E82 Brembos as a temporary measure until I figure out which direction I want to go. Still plenty more to do before the third race of the season on the 5th of May... Pic below, don't laugh at the rust ring, could have easily been avoided via judicious use of spray paint, but like I said its all temporary :)
Looking forward to this in bold.
You're the first person apart from the E46 crowd to try spherical RTABs as well as the camber arm. Don't even think some "hardcore" M3 guys run them as far as I've seen. I'm planning a full solid/spherical rear end. Looking forward to your feedback on it. AFAIK, only BimmerWorld offer these or did you custom make your casing/shell with an OEM bearing in CNC/lathe etc ?
 

Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
292
Alright time for a much needed update. A lot has gone on since my last update. I had an LSD failure during an exhibition trackday event which cut short my runtime and consigned the car back to the lift, with under a week remaining before the next championship event, So big big kudos to Florian Seibold @ Limitedslip.de for hooking me up with a Drexler LSD on such short notice. Was a HUGE rush putting the car back together and it was only done @ 6pm on Friday afternoon the weekend of the event so there was little to no time to re-acclimatize myself with the machine...
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Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
292
Managed to place 2nd despite under-performing this time around, mainly due to the lack of seat time which really affects my confidence and ability to push. I like to think I got lucky this time as there was 0.4s separating 2nd through 6th, with 1st place just 0.7s ahead. Still PLENTY of potential left in the car once I sort out a few details...



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59522817_2115919561797145_5106202965136375808_o.jpg


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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,578
Monroe CT
Watching how nuetral that car is makes me want to b2b a z3 ,135 and my car really curious I feel like I would have hooked up little better but I would been hot dog hallway sloppy on a technical like that
 

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