Technical Hydra Performance 135 Leichtbau State of the Art Thread

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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,708
Monroe CT
20 psi currently rev 3 ,0 timing corrections working way up on boost. Way more power and transient response on part throttle in d mode than stock turbos. Has to be less back pressure doing it but where I used to lug 5th gear coming up hill to my house car floats away real smooth now.
 
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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,708
Monroe CT
Most amazing part I'm on 650s and at 44 wgdc I am making 19.3lbs at 6900rpm on stock turbos I was at 75 percent making 18lbs at like 5500rpm falling to 14 by redline iirc
 

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,708
Monroe CT
Stop drooling @Rob09msport it's really wearing on my patience for getting the rest of our stuff sorted out so I can do the install.... :cool:

Filippo
I know the pain imagined selling my car few times this build and at few points was really wishing could go back in time like 50g ago on this car and buy used 911 lmao. But I can say it's worth it in end and I know I did good cause even my wife says my car worth it and better than just buying m4 or m2. Now question is does she say that for fear of me showing up with new car one day, this ill never know. Anyway trust me im jealous of you cause you have Barry 3dm working on yours that thing will be a track monster.
 
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fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,458
Virginia
Story about a guy who had been married for quite a long time. He started showing an interest in fire engines. He was always researching them, showing his wife pictures of restored fire engines, looking at used fire engines, opining to his wife that he'd like an old Mack engine. His wife just couldn't make sense of her husband and his fascination with fire engines. The wife became more and more concerned. He went to a show one day that had a vintage fire engine gathering and came back talking with his wife about how he'd met these guys that were restoring fire engines. Exasperated, his wife said, "why aren't you like all your other buddies that ride motorcycles?!" So he bought a Harley.

Filippo
 
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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,708
Monroe CT
Lmao I gotta try that
Edit realized i left out details @panzer I have Omar aka hydra tuning them since he made them I figured why not. I have high standards as well .I used v8bait previously and he was great. But I drove around on rev 1 tune few times cause I did n20 sensor so I couldnt revert to my old tune. I have to say that rev 1 was very polished it was very conservative on boost with aggressive taper but I didnt get one code or any issue to note . Right then I knew I made good choice.
Also @filippo you will be very happy to know that these turbos actually let you put down the power much better cause they pull to redline and they dont have that light switch torque punch where you go freon zero to hero instantly and shock tires then unload them right after causing loss of traction as suspension lifts. These load up the rear and then keep it loaded and hold boost on shift as well so they actually hook alot better. Goes to show that loss of traction really means nothing as far as how much power a car makes.
 
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angu116

Lurker
Oct 8, 2018
14
Most amazing part I'm on 650s and at 44 wgdc I am making 19.3lbs at 6900rpm on stock turbos I was at 75 percent making 18lbs at like 5500rpm falling to 14 by redline iirc
So you finally got the outlets sorted out? I've been following both threads but may have missed any new updates/pics. Glad to hear you're up and running, been waiting to see someone stateside test the hydras
 

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,708
Monroe CT
Ya I thought I had posted the completed pics. I got them done but then had to drop motor and trans twice due to a issue with trans rebuild. Then on way in one time cracked a nipple on pressure converter so that was cool. But I'm in the tuning stage trying get it dialed in before Friday to make dyno appontment
 
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fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,458
Virginia
Could you post the pics here? Would love to see the finished product
@Rob09msport actually has a thread specific to his outlet. Maybe he'll update that?

On our side, latest ETA's are ... head getting ported over the next two weeks, and flowbench numbers before it ships back. We'll build the head end of the month. Final tubing for HP650 outlets is due in next week. We are expecting to having a couple stainless outlet sets built this week. Those are the final pieces before we are clear for installation. August time frame might be nice - we need to look at schedules and heat.

Filippo
 

angu116

Lurker
Oct 8, 2018
14
@Rob09msport actually has a thread specific to his outlet. Maybe he'll update that?

On our side, latest ETA's are ... head getting ported over the next two weeks, and flowbench numbers before it ships back. We'll build the head end of the month. Final tubing for HP650 outlets is due in next week. We are expecting to having a couple stainless outlet sets built this week. Those are the final pieces before we are clear for installation. August time frame might be nice - we need to look at schedules and heat.

Filippo
Ah found the thread! Got buried a few pages back. That's good news though, looking forward to updates.
 

zcchen

Lurker
Nov 19, 2018
18
Installed my HP650s last week. What a riot! My 1M felt so fast! Went to a track day at Zhuhai International Circuit. Posted a time of 1:50.6. Only car faster than me that day was a 991.1 GT3.

I rigged up a temporary solution for the outlet. I started with a PSP outlet for MMP stage 3. The Y portion fits to connect to the front outlet as well as intercooler. I had to cut part of the Y where it goes to the rear outlet as it rubs the frame rail. I slipped on a bendable silicone pipe to the Y, then a short piece of straight aluminum with beads to connect the silicone pipe to a 90' elbow which slipped onto the rear outlet. It wasn't ideal but it worked. Maybe wrapping gold foil on the whole system helped :p

I could feel the HP650 turbos make more power up top. Indeed, the car pulls so strong to 7,200 rpm. I have logs and Virtual Dyno, but I won't share the dyno until I get on a real one since the accuracy for Virtual Dyno is debatable and posting that result causes more chaos than it would help everyone understand how good the turbos are. With turbos and outlet the only things changed, compared to stock turbos, the torque curve doesn't necessarily shift up, but it does shift to the right to higher rpm and it stays flatter near the redline. Using tune Version 1, my car did over-boost in 3rd or 4th gear under partial throttle, but it appears Omar fixed that in tune version 2. I have PR stage 2 LPHP. It never caused EKP over heat issue before but I got that this weekend. So it seems like an EOS EKP upgrade must be ordered.

Only small complaint is that compared to stock turbos, the spool is slower. In a few slow corners i used to do 3rd accelerating from about 3,000rpm, now I have to drop to 2nd.

Great turbos from Omar and good tune as well.
 

Asbjorn

Sergeant
Mar 10, 2018
432
Europe, based in China
Installed my HP650s last week. What a riot! My 1M felt so fast! Went to a track day at Zhuhai International Circuit. Posted a time of 1:50.6. Only car faster than me that day was a 991.1 GT3.

I rigged up a temporary solution for the outlet. I started with a PSP outlet for MMP stage 3. The Y portion fits to connect to the front outlet as well as intercooler. I had to cut part of the Y where it goes to the rear outlet as it rubs the frame rail. I slipped on a bendable silicone pipe to the Y, then a short piece of straight aluminum with beads to connect the silicone pipe to a 90' elbow which slipped onto the rear outlet. It wasn't ideal but it worked. Maybe wrapping gold foil on the whole system helped :p

I could feel the HP650 turbos make more power up top. Indeed, the car pulls so strong to 7,200 rpm. I have logs and Virtual Dyno, but I won't share the dyno until I get on a real one since the accuracy for Virtual Dyno is debatable and posting that result causes more chaos than it would help everyone understand how good the turbos are. With turbos and outlet the only things changed, compared to stock turbos, the torque curve doesn't necessarily shift up, but it does shift to the right to higher rpm and it stays flatter near the redline. Using tune Version 1, my car did over-boost in 3rd or 4th gear under partial throttle, but it appears Omar fixed that in tune version 2. I have PR stage 2 LPHP. It never caused EKP over heat issue before but I got that this weekend. So it seems like an EOS EKP upgrade must be ordered.

Only small complaint is that compared to stock turbos, the spool is slower. In a few slow corners i used to do 3rd accelerating from about 3,000rpm, now I have to drop to 2nd.

Great turbos from Omar and good tune as well.
I also participated at this event and can attest that this early revision hydra tuned car was absolutely flying. This, despite the limits of Chinese pump gas! And btw @zcchen is also one of the best drivers I have met at any time attack events in China. Big fan!

Now 100-200 times are probably better for comparison than VDs and even real dynos. But until we have those, here is one data point that I think speaks volumes of this setup: Zcchen told me he would hit 224kph at the end of the long start/finish straight at Zhuhai circuit. My car never got above 214kph on a clean lap. (Well I did hit 217kph on one lap, but then almost ended up in the gravel trap...). Now in my cars defense I couldn't carry as much speed through the corners or brake as late due to more weight and inferior tires, but the gearing and faster shifts of the DCT probably add some of that back. I know an M4 DCT that did 1:51 around this circuit (running even better tires than Zcchen did) and it also only hit 217kph on that straight.

Now we didn't get to try each other's cars at this event, but I think we could arrange that one day to evaluate spool/lag if people are interested. At least after hydra has had a chance to finalize the tune.
 

zcchen

Lurker
Nov 19, 2018
18
Regarding spool, I guess there are a few different factors in play here.

First is that full boost doesn't equal to full power.
Secondly, I'm rolling on the throttle starting at about 3000rpm not that I'm flooring it at 2500. From my highway logs, if I do floor at 2k, I do get at 3k rpm a considerable amount of psi, torque judging by logs and actual thrust judging by my experience. However, slowly rolling on the throttle out of a corner feels differently. The boost definitely comes on slower than stockies. I'm not complaining, as I fully accept this small loss in exchange for the riot up top all the way to 7k+ rpm. I have to adapt my driving since it is now inefficient to correct my line out of a corner by modulating the throttle, I will try point-and-shoot next time, let the cat rotate more and smash the throttle out of the corner. Even the slightest let off of throttle as an attempt to bring the car towards the inside of a corner results in turbo lag. Do I get this problem with NA motors? No. Do I miss NA cars? Less than I thought I would.
And finally I understand it is difficult to remote tune both for the tuner and the car owner. It is never easy to communicate intricate issues over emails. Moreover, diagnosing issues remotely is even more difficult. So far Omar has provided me with strong support and I look forward to working with him on future improvements/upgrades.


P.S. @Asbjorn Chinese Sinopec 98Ron > California 91Octane by a million miles :p
 

aus335iguy

Lieutenant
Nov 18, 2017
993
Regarding spool, I guess there are a few different factors in play here.

First is that full boost doesn't equal to full power.
Secondly, I'm rolling on the throttle starting at about 3000rpm not that I'm flooring it at 2500. From my highway logs, if I do floor at 2k, I do get at 3k rpm a considerable amount of psi, torque judging by logs and actual thrust judging by my experience. However, slowly rolling on the throttle out of a corner feels differently. The boost definitely comes on slower than stockies. I'm not complaining, as I fully accept this small loss in exchange for the riot up top all the way to 7k+ rpm. I have to adapt my driving since it is now inefficient to correct my line out of a corner by modulating the throttle, I will try point-and-shoot next time, let the cat rotate more and smash the throttle out of the corner. Even the slightest let off of throttle as an attempt to bring the car towards the inside of a corner results in turbo lag. Do I get this problem with NA motors? No. Do I miss NA cars? Less than I thought I would.
And finally I understand it is difficult to remote tune both for the tuner and the car owner. It is never easy to communicate intricate issues over emails. Moreover, diagnosing issues remotely is even more difficult. So far Omar has provided me with strong support and I look forward to working with him on future improvements/upgrades.


P.S. @Asbjorn Chinese Sinopec 98Ron > California 91Octane by a million miles :p
Regarding the remote tuning. I reckon that a good video accompanied by logs would help a lot.
 
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Jan 31, 2017
294
Don't mind the colors (the silicone bits are jacketed in high-temperature fire sleeve), or the additional weld on the F turbo, but this is more or less what my latest and greatest outlet design will look like. Makes for an easy install, with the best possible flow/merge design to keep up velocity, while keeping the number of connections down to an absolute minimum. The cast merge can even be welded to the FMIC inlet to eliminate one more connection/potential leakage point...

67190707_2318929714894882_1330579695774728192_n.jpg
67590235_465189304267315_310524804060938240_n.jpg
67354818_2493404627559077_6004534639685795840_n.jpg
67312949_2058667174440140_6174006958194950144_n.jpg
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,458
Virginia
I like the idea. Extra insurance with the high-temp sleeve? Seems like a nice option for those with more abusive use cases.

Filippo
 

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