PROMO Hydra Performance Official Product Release Thread

Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
426
Chicago
@Panzerfaust
1/4mi ET is primarily a function of traction/launch/60' and has less to do with whp than we generally think. An almost full-weight <600whp stick shift Evo can do 9.7 ETs with the right setup, yet you have several 800whp cars still in the 11s... A better performance metric is 100-200/60-130 times , as that removes traction from the equation and shifts focus solely on power/weight.
While its never completely fair to compare different cars/setups, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the HP800s appear to be slightly outspooling the 1ks based on the data I've seen so far?


Filippo,
Thank you for your business, I'm looking forward to hearing you and Barry's feedback on these puppies :)
Yep, I've been a very outspoken critic of the typical N54 mentality of "max top end HP=fast 1/4" when people have no suspension or traction mods. However I do think a solid torque curve plays a pretty big role in maximizing your 1/4 times too.

I know some people claim (or users have had issue) with hitting 15psi that quick, but I recently posted one of my personal logs on my 6AT car where I was at 16psi in third gear at 289x. I do have PSP outlets "modified" to work for my 1Ks though so I might have slightly different flow than most with 1Ks
 
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ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
594
SC
Yep, I've been a very outspoken critic of the typical N54 mentality of "max top end HP=fast 1/4" when people have no suspension or traction mods. However I do think a solid torque curve plays a pretty big role in maximizing your 1/4 times too.

I know some people claim (or users have had issue) with hitting 15psi that quick, but I recently posted one of my personal logs on my 6AT car where I was at 16psi in third gear at 289x. I do have PSP inlets "modified" to work for my 1Ks though so I might have slightly different flow than most with 1Ks
Curious about your "modified" PSP. Was looking at PSP outlets for these HP turbos.
 

Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
964
Boston
Struggling with the decision myself. Thinking the 800s might actually be better for 93. I waffle back and forth every day.
In general, the more lbs/min from your turbo, the more horsepower you will make on pump. This is because at some point the turbo gets out of it's efficiency range and starts to blow hot air. To combat the hot air you need more octane/knock resistance. Which is normally done with Meth or E85 on this platform. Also with running turbos out of their efficiency range you end up with very high shaft speeds and back pressure which is not great for a turbo longevity. If you don't have E85 access or want to run meth I would suggest you go with the 800s.

If you want the most power on pump 93 you will want a turbo(s) that flows the most. This is why a single turbo is generally the best option for people who do not have easy E85 access or are willing to run gobs of direct port meth but also want high HP. You can pick say, a 6466 and make almost 600whp on straight pump 93 through the stock injectors with just a single walbro LPFP. No port injection needed or upgraded HPFPs etc.

Now if you want the most low end tq twins will also be the winner 100% of the time depending on their size. Either way you go, it's fun to see what hydra is bringing to the market!


Edit: again it's nice to see flow numbers which no other vendor provides, assuming they are accurate 74lb/min of flow for the 800s which should give everyone an idea of their max power and allow people to make decisions on their goals.
 
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fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,051
Virginia
With the N54 platform a friend once said, "it's always evolving." We went 650s. I want to get to 600whp zip code with the Z4. The 3DM dedicated E90 road race track car will be a different story.

Unfortunately turbos are a crude way to get there - N53 head is far more elegant, but we are not ready to open that can of worms until mid-2019 or so. Fueling for me will be shotgun and DI only (not interested in multiple fueling systems), E85. I think when 800s and N53 head come into play one starts to run into other platform limitations - assuming one is running PI or something, traction becomes an issue I would think. I'm hoping DME controlled dual HPFP becomes a soon reality, and the cooling system gets developed with some DME help. We just saw an EPK solution hit market. I'm wandering but you get the point.

Thanks Omar, going to be a fun winter :)

Filippo
 
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Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
426
Chicago
Curious about your "modified" PSP. Was looking at PSP outlets for these HP turbos.
The actual outlets themselves weren't really modified, hence the quotes. But the PSP MMP Stage 3 outlets aren't designed to fit with the 1Ks and PSP/Dusty himself doesnt offer any support if you try to do as such. It took some finagling, moving of other things during install and cutting a good chunk of the boost solenoid bracket to get them to fit. From what I've seen I'm likely only the second person to run this exact setup at the moment. Things are certainly tight and from what I gather it was an absolute bitch to do for the shop even while doing a turbo swap.
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,052
Monroe CT
In general, the more lbs/min from your turbo, the more horsepower you will make on pump. This is because at some point the turbo gets out of it's efficiency range and starts to blow hot air. To combat the hot air you need more octane/knock resistance. Which is normally done with Meth or E85 on this platform. Also with running turbos out of their efficiency range you end up with very high shaft speeds and back pressure which is not great for a turbo longevity. If you don't have E85 access or want to run meth I would suggest you go with the 800s.

If you want the most power on pump 93 you will want a turbo(s) that flows the most. This is why a single turbo is generally the best option for people who do not have easy E85 access or are willing to run gobs of direct port meth but also want high HP. You can pick say, a 6466 and make almost 600whp on straight pump 93 through the stock injectors with just a single walbro LPFP. No port injection needed or upgraded HPFPs etc.

Now if you want the most low end tq twins will also be the winner 100% of the time depending on their size. Either way you go, it's fun to see what hydra is bringing to the market!
I honestly don't think your giving up much with these twins on 93 vs a single. Holding boost to redline will help and 61lb still on the efficiency island should make closer to 600whp with our ve 9.5 to 10hp per lb is not out of the question.
Also money sent for set of 650s can't wait.
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
830
Holding boost to redline will help and 61lb still on the efficiency island should make closer to 600whp with our ve 9.5 to 10hp per lb is not out of the question.
You think 10hp per lb is realistic on 93 though? I figured the 10whp per lb/min of flow was when using E85.
 

Hydra Performance

Corporal
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
233
Those metrics are generally better suited for (proper) SAE BHP numbers, 9.5-11bhp/ lb/min depending on octane and thermal efficiency. The whp/bhp ratio depends on the dyno and is generally not the often touted ~0.85 factor, but this varies from dyno to dyno... With that said I'll take trap speeds and GPS performance numbers over whp #s any day of the week.
 
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Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
964
Boston
I honestly don't think your giving up much with these twins on 93 vs a single. Holding boost to redline will help and 61lb still on the efficiency island should make closer to 600whp with our ve 9.5 to 10hp per lb is not out of the question.
Also money sent for set of 650s can't wait.
61lbs vs 90lbs for a 6466: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-x-dyno-results/692309-turbo-flow-rates.html or https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2559017

The only people putting out high WHP #s on 93 and twins is VTT. They hit 570whp on 93 with GCs on a 100 degree day. I am personally very skeptical about those #s as that is what a 6266 should hit with it's 80 lbs/min on 93 and no one else has come close to that number. But I guess that is par for the corse and most people don't seem to be able to hit vendors #s.

If you guys want to talk about twins vs. single flow #s we should start a new thread and stop mucking up Hydras thread.
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,052
Monroe CT
You think 10hp per lb is realistic on 93 though? I figured the 10whp per lb/min of flow was when using E85.
93 def wouldnt be able to max any turbo out but that's the best part of these ratings they are conservative. I'm sure a max effort e85 tune over spinning could prob do alot more and no I dont think 93 alone can do 10 on these but with a little meth I think it could happen.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,051
Virginia
Well I did. You see, there is this alley. Be there at 10pm. There is a guy ... :sunglasses:

Seriously just PM him. Mine setup is expected to arrive this week some time.

Filippo
 
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langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
830
Any of you kids get your turbos installed yet? I'm excited to see some results on these things.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,051
Virginia
Cold, rain, snow basically have conspired against us in Northern Virginia. A couple warm days and I was able to do quick Liquimoly oil changes on the two diesels. But I have a backlog of basic maintenance to do on cars that I can't get to because the Z4 is apart in the garage - 550i brakes for the 535d, and new brakes all around on the wife's bluetec GLK.

@[email protected] is at Ohlins NC facility doing some shaker rig testing for some E90 upcoming suspension stuff I think (don't quote me on that). I'm waiting for that to wrap up before we make the stainless outlet for the Hydra turbos going on my car, mounting theHydra turbos on N54 sitting on the engine stand. While Z4's are normally clocked different, we are swapping to E90 turbo orientation, so the stainless outlet should work with any E90. We're also waiting on the XClutch to boat its way across the Pacific. I think it's a row boat, come to think of it. We have some prep work to do, but the car will likely come completely apart in April for installation of a bunch of stuff, turbos included. I think the N54 fuel system S55 dual HPFP setup will not go on by that time, as we can't anticipate when the R&D work ongoing with that project team will require Guinea Pig #2.

Filippo

6f48f96b-1bb1-4f4e-816e-5009423e28e5.jpg
 
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fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,051
Virginia
Got HP800s and HP intake/inlets coming. Waiting on the Xclutch and outlet availability. I'll update when I can.
So in summary ... lol ... too bad the XClutch GB didn't have the option for people to pay for faster delivery. I believe several people jumped ship (pun intended) when the GB went limbo and then when shipping went tugboat. I'm waiting it out with you, though, lol.

Filippo

shipping.jpg
 
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Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
964
Boston
Cold, rain, snow basically have conspired against us in Northern Virginia. A couple warm days and I was able to do quick Liquimoly oil changes on the two diesels. But I have a backlog of basic maintenance to do on cars that I can't get to because the Z4 is apart in the garage - 550i brakes for the 535d, and new brakes all around on the wife's bluetec GLK.

@[email protected] is at Ohlins NC facility doing some shaker rig testing for some E90 upcoming suspension stuff I think (don't quote me on that). I'm waiting for that to wrap up before we make the stainless outlet for the Hydra turbos going on my car, mounting the hydra turbos on N54 sitting on the engine stand. While Z4's are normally clocked different, we are swapping to E90 turbo orientation, so the stainless outlet should work with any E90. We're also waiting on the XClutch to boat its way across the Pacific. I think it's a row boat, come to think of it. We have some prep work to do, but the car will likely come completely apart in April for installation of a bunch of stuff, turbos included. I think the N54 fuel system S55 dual HPFP setup will not go on by that time, as we can't anticipate when the R&D work ongoing with that project team will require Guinea Pig #2.

Filippo

View attachment 22568
Ohlins already offers e9X coilovers. Are they or @[email protected] going to offer something different/custom? Barry has my business once I figure out exactly what I am going to order and I am getting close.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,051
Virginia
Ohlins already offers e9X coilovers. Are they or @[email protected] going to offer something different/custom? Barry has my business once I figure out exactly what I am going to order and I am getting close.
I know he's focused on the rear of the E90, subframe, suspension geometry, etc. I don't know if this Ohlins trip is just for E90 stuff, or if other things also. He's working on a variety of BMW solutions for different BMW chassis' as well I believe as some track only applications. Back to E90 I've seen some photos of parts, stuff welded up, equipment taking various measurements. Who the hell knows what he's doing lol

Filippo
 
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ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
594
SC
So in summary ... lol ... too bad the XClutch GB didn't have the option for people to pay for faster delivery. I believe several people jumped ship (pun intended) when the GB went limbo and then when shipping went tugboat. I'm waiting it out with you, though, lol.

Filippo

View attachment 22576
Somewhat on the nose with this one Filippo.
 
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