Jesse Burrell's EFR 9180 E93 does 768whp / 648wtq

Discussion in 'N54' started by doublespaces, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Omar@VaderSolutions

    [email protected] Corporal Vendor

    234
    NY & AZ
    N54 135i & E34 M540i6
    the new steed manifold is for external wastegate
     
  2. dyezak

    dyezak Lieutenant

    566
    Plano TX
    335is
    Yup, external wastegate and GTX G2 turbo (fitment decision due to the monster EFR compressor housing).
     
  3. Omar@VaderSolutions

    [email protected] Corporal Vendor

    234
    NY & AZ
    N54 135i & E34 M540i6
    i still dont see the obsession of real early spool with ST , if you want to spool at idle just upgrade twins.. otherwise good ol pte , agp, bw sx turbos are just fine.
     
  4. cloud9blue

    cloud9blue Private

    29
    09 E92 335i
    Right I was thinking about the speedtech kit for N55. Lol. From the log they posted, it looks like they are having the same problem.
     
  5. dyezak

    dyezak Lieutenant

    566
    Plano TX
    335is
    [​IMG]
     
  6. bradsm87

    bradsm87 Corporal

    121
    EFR turbos are not any better for boost threshold eg. on a dyno run going WOT from low RPM. Where they are insanely better than others is transient response eg. rapid throttle changes at RPM that's already above the boost threshold.
     
  7. bradsm87

    bradsm87 Corporal

    121
    Have you seen how well the EFR wastegates branch off smoothly and the flapper is on an angle that favours wastegate flow? They also have a much bigger openings than IWGs before them. They do not suffer from boost creep.

    The main issue with using the IWG housing for engines/turbos this big is it's only 0.92 A/R. The EWG ones are 1.05 and 1.45.
     
  8. cloud9blue

    cloud9blue Private

    29
    09 E92 335i
    The iwg opening is still too small for our engine’s displacement and the relatively “low” boost that n54/55 typically see.

    [​IMG]

    That’s the log speedtech posted on their website for their efr 7670 n55 kit.

    See how they target 18psi with jb4 but can’t get it under control as the rpm rises...
     
  9. bradsm87

    bradsm87 Corporal

    121
    .92 turbine housing is too small for the setup. It's so far from ideal having a way too small turbine housing and having to gate over half the flow. Even so, I'd be very interested to know wastegate preload and if it's actually running 0% WGDC on that one.
     
  10. cloud9blue

    cloud9blue Private

    29
    09 E92 335i
    Yep. I don’t see why is that low. The 9180 is rated for 95lb/min of flow, which roughly translates into 950hp at the crank. So around 850whp or so at the wheel. Given that car is probably suffering from some issue, +700whp is a decent number. These turbos don’t like being driven off its compressor map and over speeding (especially the larger 9180), given the aero profile and material they used for the turbine.

    If you some dyno glory, get a precision or comp turbo instead.
     
  11. cloud9blue

    cloud9blue Private

    29
    09 E92 335i
    Yeah. Don’t know, since they really don’t say much. I am also skeptical of their 650whp claim with just a 7670 turbo.
     
  12. Omar@VaderSolutions

    [email protected] Corporal Vendor

    234
    NY & AZ
    N54 135i & E34 M540i6
    my turbo is rated for 94lbs/min but doesnt spool like the efr does
     
  13. Abacus38

    Abacus38 Sergeant

    289
    Tampa/Orlando, FL
    2007 Ti Ag 335i
    I've seen the efr 9180 make 900whp but the problem is that the compressor wheel is too small to make that kind of power on 3L 6 cylinder motor. The turbine is fine hence why in the upcoming black series EFR the 80mm turbine is being pair with 72mm compressor which is good for 1100whp. You can only expect so much out a 67.8 compressor wheel on 3L...another reason why dudes struggle to make 1000whp on 3L using 6870 pte. compressor wheel is too small
     
  14. Tony@VargasTurboTech

    [email protected] Sergeant Vendor

    Whos saying this is a 1000WHP turbo? Its rated at 95 Lb/Min basically that means its good for 950 CRANK MAXED the EFF out. Also, compressor are rarely ever quoted on the inducer side. This is a 91mm compressor hence the name 9180. The entire point of my post was. 768WHP, and basically terrible spool is not a good showing for a turbo everyone was saying was going to change the game. Sure the EFR's have great transient response, but thats not everything.
     
  15. V8bait

    V8bait Corporal

    I wouldn't say the car has all kinds of issues, it generally runs really well. There's been teething issues with broken wastegates, boostbox, and R8 coil issues initially but they were resolved by a very motivated owner and a great mechanic. That Rocco guy I just can't really speak highly enough about, he is great. Spool is in line with the turbo size, but with the manifold design (one of the best top mount twin scroll's I've seen) and EFR everyone was hoping for more, there may still be more to have time will tell. I know the supra community lags with this particular setup, but it's still a very capable turbo and should keep the stock block happy at high power. Also, I don't really care about boost I care about power, some setups make great power with less boost. This one is only like 50tq behind a typical 6466 twin scroll dyno below 5,000 rpm. And on the street it spools around 800rpm faster than the dyno.

    The car was running well at first, had some boost control issues initially that were resolved quickly. It was firing on all 6 great and made just under 800 on a messy pull that misfired the first or second run, after that it seemed to be unhappy on cyl 4. It wasn't overly concerning, they checked everything, just annoying more than anything. Only real "issues" on the dyno were the PI needed some adjustment but they didn't have a way to flash the controller, and the WGDC was maxing out but boost was not increasing. This could point to any number of things that have to do with spool and the peak power obtained, but I don't like to guess.

    Here's a log and a snapshot, don't remember which run this was, but most of them were very similar as it was tuning, not just power runs upping boost.

    upload_2017-12-8_12-23-28.png

    Link to one of the logs bcuz not EMP tuning https://datazap.me/u/v8bait/post-r8-coil-swap?log=0&data=3-7-8-9-10-11-12-19-30&solo=30&zoom=41-108
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  16. Abacus38

    Abacus38 Sergeant

    289
    Tampa/Orlando, FL
    2007 Ti Ag 335i
    I don't understand what your talking about Tony. Alot of people who use PTE stuff go by inducer size. If you were to compare this turbo to a PTE turbo it would be a 6873. This turbo is much bigger on the turbine side then everybody else. Imo I think a better combo should 9174 which would be like a 6766.
     
  17. Omar@VaderSolutions

    [email protected] Corporal Vendor

    234
    NY & AZ
    N54 135i & E34 M540i6
    you dont think cyl 4 is dumping extra fuel from PI ?
     
  18. 08_335i

    08_335i Sergeant

    305
    2008 ST 335i
    I'll still never understand this game of slapping 900+whp turbos on these cars for 750whp.
     
  19. Omar@VaderSolutions

    [email protected] Corporal Vendor

    234
    NY & AZ
    N54 135i & E34 M540i6
    so when it blows, you just keep the turbo you have lol
     
  20. bradsm87

    bradsm87 Corporal

    121
    The transient response difference does change the game. Good EFR setups don't have "terrible spool" for a start. When spirited driving, it's not like you're constantly loading up the engine from low RPM. Yes the EFRs do have bigger turbines than what other turbos run for similar size compressors which does slightly increase boost threshold but that's a small price to pay as the turbine is hugely lighter and the larger diameter gives the air more leverage on the shaft. Both of those things help transient response a lot. Also the larger diameter turbine wheel means lower back pressure too.

    In summary, give me better transient response over better boost threshold any day. When you're driving a car in an enjoyable manner, you're generally keeping it above the boost threshold anyway but you're constantly making transient changes.
     
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