K&P Unboxing & Future Reviews

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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#22
I am not that worried about it. No metal chunks, that's all I care about. Basically the same kind of metallic filings as in all my previous BMW that I owned, but just a little more than paper filter. Haven't done anything different to it except for metal filter and motul oil. And I would not think that those would be bad for the engine. Also...it's a new engine from Munich and replaced last year.
 
Aug 11, 2017
1,612
Virginia
#23
I don't worry about it much either, but for the cost of an oil analysis (not much) it's nice to get a baseline reading. If you've never done it, they include a personal written analysis of your oil and do a comparative against their analysis history for the motor you are running. Nice for the short $$$.

I had people screaming up and down at me on a forum about my oil change interval on my diesel BMW - sent oil to Blackstone, along with my change interval. Numbers came back great and they said, keep doing what you are doing.

Filippo
 

Jeffman

Lieutenant
Jan 7, 2017
846
#24
Curious about those metal filings. Any photos? How new is the engine mileage-wise, since you said you got it last year.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#25
Curious about those metal filings. Any photos? How new is the engine mileage-wise, since you said you got it last year.
Engine has about 20k on it now. Lots of highway driving long distance.
They are not really filings, they are more like a soup of microscopic particles microns in diameter. You cannot even pick up one particle since it is so small. Waaaaay smaller than a grain of sand.
No pics. Hands were oily.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#26
Update KP Filter, Motul oil...
Second oil change on the KP steel filter shows clearly that it does not work as well as stock BMW filter.

I know my car and this is absolutely abnormal and never happened before.

1. More metal particles than last time.
2. Bigger sized particles.
3. Motul oil does not stay clean long...seems to clog channels. For example, on stock oil, I could pour a bottle of oil into the exposed oil filter housing and the new oil would drain quicker than if I did this after using Motul. The oil would just stay as if it were not draining to the bottom if I poured new oil over the motul oil inside the exposed oil filter housing.

I will cease using the KP filter and throw it in the trash. Not going to even offer it up for sale because it will fuck someone's engine up. I will also cease using motul. Returning to BMW oil and filter...also returning to plastic oil filter cap instead of the CS metal finned cap. That cap does not hold the internal oil filter core securely enough. I have doubts.

See photos.
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fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,612
Virginia
#28
Thanks for updating us on your personal observations and decisions. This is why I suggested doing engine oil analysis throughout the process. Though for you, "knowing your engine" is clearly sufficient for your own decision-making process.

Filippo
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#29
Thanks for updating us on your personal observations and decisions. This is why I suggested doing engine oil analysis throughout the process. Though for you, "knowing your engine" is clearly sufficient for your own decision-making process.

Filippo
On stock filter and oil, the magnetic drain plug still had shiny metal exposed to the eye upon oil changes since the engine was replaced by dealer. Do you see a shiny metal drain plug tip in the photo? That drain plug has never once been that black and thick with metal as shown in the photo.

I don't need an analysis to see metal filings triple the amount than when with stock filter. That magnetic drain plug since day one has one has barely a transparent film on every oil change. Never has it been completely black like the photo. And not once has there ever been even one speck of metal the size of those stuck on the metal filter in the photos.

This 2nd motui oil interval was at 3k miles or a little less and had triple the amount of stock oil and filter.

The first motul oil change at 2k miles had 2x the metal particles than stock filter.

All moving parts wear on engines...I get that. What I am interested in is getting the wear and tear back to stock filter amounts. Whether or not I know the exact part or metallurgy reports won't change the fact that I have to minimize it immediately.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#30
Been thinking about possible reaons.

1. Could be metal increase due to oil faster flow picking up more particles? I don't think so since the engine has flush every third change and been clean as a whistle historically. I would have seen dirty stock filters each change. I never seen particles in the paper filter let alone the sand sized grains you see on the photos.

2. Metal filter media letting more through to pan so it looks like more wear and tear? Possibly...but letting more through to pan means letting it also go through all channels in engine. Not good. Will perform another flush to see what happens on stock filter.

Any other hypotheses are welcome.
 
Oct 28, 2017
816
Monroe CT
#31
Been thinking about possible reaons.

1. Could be metal increase due to oil faster flow picking up more particles? I don't think so since the engine has flush every third change and been clean as a whistle historically. I would have seen dirty stock filters each change. I never seen particles in the paper filter let alone the sand sized grains you see on the photos.

2. Metal filter media letting more through to pan so it looks like more wear and tear? Possibly...but letting more through to pan means letting it also go through all channels in engine. Not good. Will perform another flush to see what happens on stock filter.

Any other hypotheses are welcome.
Really hope it's not anything from actual filter. Hopefully could just be the increase in flow by not bypassing like stock filter does when psi jumps.
 
Oct 3, 2018
18
#32
Its like paper vs stainless air filters. They "flow" more but at the expense of filter effectiveness. Whatever passes through the filter will grind up bearings and damage metal sufaces, slowly but surely. That is likely why you found metal on your drain plug with Motul.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#33
Video review and physical comparisons of the stock vs. CTS billet oil filter cap. Audio fluctuates.

 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,612
Virginia
#34
On stock filter and oil, the magnetic drain plug still had shiny metal exposed to the eye upon oil changes since the engine was replaced by dealer. Do you see a shiny metal drain plug tip in the photo? That drain plug has never once been that black and thick with metal as shown in the photo.

I don't need an analysis to see metal filings triple the amount than when with stock filter. That magnetic drain plug since day one has one has barely a transparent film on every oil change. Never has it been completely black like the photo. And not once has there ever been even one speck of metal the size of those stuck on the metal filter in the photos.

This 2nd motui oil interval was at 3k miles or a little less and had triple the amount of stock oil and filter.

The first motul oil change at 2k miles had 2x the metal particles than stock filter.

All moving parts wear on engines...I get that. What I am interested in is getting the wear and tear back to stock filter amounts. Whether or not I know the exact part or metallurgy reports won't change the fact that I have to minimize it immediately.
Sure I get that you don't need an oil analysis. For me to leave Motrul, I'd need an oil analysis to prove that out. I don't know why anyone would make the decision to leave Motul - likely about the best oil on the market. I respect that everybody has to go to with own opinions. That's mine. I'd be shocked to find that Motul was causing any issues.

BTW my CTS clicks into place and required a bit of force. Your video you surmise that the spring loaded section isn't pressed in far enough and causes oil flow issues ... but you never explain what that piece does and how it would impact oil flow through the housing.

Best of luck, and hope your returning configuration works out well for you. Let us know!

Filippo
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#35
Sure I get that you don't need an oil analysis. For me to leave Motrul, I'd need an oil analysis to prove that out. I don't know why anyone would make the decision to leave Motul - likely about the best oil on the market. I respect that everybody has to go to with own opinions. That's mine. I'd be shocked to find that Motul was causing any issues.

BTW my CTS clicks into place and required a bit of force. Your video you surmise that the spring loaded section isn't pressed in far enough and causes oil flow issues ... but you never explain what that piece does and how it would impact oil flow through the housing.

Best of luck, and hope your returning configuration works out well for you. Let us know!

Filippo
I have a client that also uses Motul...with stock filter. I have an oil change for him tomorrow 4k miles. I will inspect his oil to see if there are any large amounts of particles. So I don't have to wonder.

My video does not surmise what you wrote here. It specifically says I do not know how the mechanism of the oil filter core spring works, but that the firma.facto of the billet cap is absolutely different than stock. In that the stock unit has 4 protrusions that press onto the back of the spring plate of the core. How this affect flow is beyond my understanding so I am satisfied that the form.factor is visibly different in very opposite ways.

This obvious difference would definitely affect the function of the unit. How it affects the unit is beyond my understanding.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,612
Virginia
#36
My video does not surmise what you wrote here. It specifically says I do not know how the mechanism of the oil filter core spring works,
You're right. You didn't say surmise. Here's what you said, @ 1:56 showing how the spring section pushes in, you say, "I can only imagine all kinds of weirdness in terms of the internal oil flow, ummmm, deviation from the way it was designed the stock way."

So let me re-quote my statement, and slightly alter it so we don't confuse the word "surmise" with:" imagine".

Your video you surmise imagine that the spring loaded section isn't pressed in far enough and causes oil flow issues all kinds of weirdness in terms of oil flow ... but you never explain what that piece does and how it would impact oil flow through the housing.
Filippo
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#37
You're right. You didn't say surmise. Here's what you said, @ 1:56 showing how the spring section pushes in, you say, "I can only imagine all kinds of weirdness in terms of the internal oil flow, ummmm, deviation from the way it was designed the stock way."

So let me re-quote my statement, and slightly alter it so we don't confuse the word "surmise" with:" imagine".



Filippo
I don't know why you do what you do Filippo. The video clearly stated I have no idea how the mechanism works. You are are repeating what was clearly said in the video. Much time is being wasted here.

If you know how the the spring core works, I would appreciate an educational comment. If you don't know, then we are both in the same boat.

If you want to argue that the spring core form factor doesn't matter then that's your prerogative. For me, common sense dictates that deviation in oil to metal ratios were present and the only difference was using the cts and KP units. Upon inspection the cts unit was found to have substantial differences in internal form factor to stock unit. This is not rocket science and does not need to be debated. It is what it is.

Choose to ignore it. Makes no difference.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,612
Virginia
#38
I wasn't the guy that said I could imagine all kinds of oil flow issues. I didn't make the video ... you are now asking ME to explain how it works? Dude ... you said it ... I'm asking YOU how it works since you imagine all kinds of oil flow problems because of it. I have no idea. I asked you because it was one of the points in your video ... if you don't want to explain how it works and why you imagine it causes oil flow problems, no worries. But don't ask me to explain what you imagine - I have no idea.

Filippo
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#39
I wasn't the guy that said I could imagine all kinds of oil flow issues. I didn't make the video ... you are now asking ME to explain how it works? Dude ... you said it ... I'm asking YOU how it works since you imagine all kinds of oil flow problems because of it. I have no idea. I asked you because it was one of the points in your video ... if you don't want to explain how it works and why you imagine it causes oil flow problems, no worries. But don't ask me to explain what you imagine - I have no idea.

Filippo
You're really wasting my time dude. Did you not watch the video? Why do you keep asking me about something that is clearly stated in the video? What is it about the video do you NOT understand?
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#40
Update: I found that when using the CTS filter cap and the KP stainless oil filter at all speeds in cruise control, my car would oscillate throttle up and down about 30x per minute. The car would speed up and then slow down slightly. On even flat roads.

Now with stock BMW oil filter and filter cap..cruise control is rock solid. No more oscillations at all. Probably related to oil flow deviations also.
 

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