Little custom fueling work in progress...

PFS

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Nov 19, 2018
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Hey all!

Thought I'd post a couple pics of some current custom work going on at PFS. What we have here is a new top hat being modified to support both an externally routed second pump as well as a return from an externally mounted FPR. Things get crowded when you add electrical connections, an output, and a return to an already busy top hat, which is why we take care to precisely locate all of the connectors.

Having the second pump routed externally pays an enormous dividend in flow capability, as you're not bleeding off into the stock-bucket venturi (if bucketed) or any of the drivers side in-tank tomfoolery. Due to the extra parts, install is going to require some more cursing to get 'er all done, but if you know that going into it and take your time, it's completely doable. What are the advantages?

-Depending on configuration, ~10-40% more flow capability vs. routing through tank internals, which means a cheap, reliable, and readily available Walbro 450 gets the job done long past the point the other guys are messing around with walbro 525's and beefed up electrical connections required to support them.
-External FPR keeps fuel pressure very steady, which is good for both upgraded DI systems and PI. You can even add a boost reference line if you so choose to (fuel pressure climbs with boost).
-Return dumping on top of the bucket is another factor to help avoid starvation issues.

There are many means to achieve your fueling goals/needs. This particular method is simple, cost-effective, and flows a TON of fuel. If you need this or something like it shoot us a PM or email!

Chris

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Rob09msport

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So would this completely bypass the in tank regulator and filter ? And also would you still use stock ekp.
Basically for someone like me I'd rather spend on hard parts then a bpm4 so if I wanted run a single 450 cause I dont run e85 would I buy this and your external fpr and then bypass ekp somehow or still use the stock ekp ?
 

PFS

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So would this completely bypass the in tank regulator and filter ? And also would you still use stock ekp.
Basically for someone like me I'd rather spend on hard parts then a bpm4 so if I wanted run a single 450 cause I dont run e85 would I buy this and your external fpr and then bypass ekp somehow or still use the stock ekp ?

This is for a dual-pump setup. The second pump does completely bypass in-tank hardware. For ease in overall system functionality, we recommend you keep the primary pump plumbed through stock hardware; this lets ekp control the main pump, and ensures your in-tank systems still work (fuel has a means of being transferred from driver side back to passenger side). The stock "stuff" works pretty well, it's just not cut out for 700 whp worth of flow.


Interesting, if you can bypass a hobbs with this I might be interested.

How you activate the second pump is up to you. In our stock and external series double shots, we supply a hobbs switch. If you would prefer to use an external pump controller, that's doable too, you just have to let us know and we'd configure things a little differently.

Chris
 
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typedRew

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Interesting, if you can bypass a hobbs with this I might be interested.
BPM4 eliminates the need for a hobbs switch

 

NoGuru

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BPM4 eliminates the need for a hobbs switch

Yes, but that is expensive.
 
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typedRew

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But aside from eliminating hobbs for second pump, it makes the primary pump work more reliably as it is.
 
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PFS

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But aside from eliminating hobbs for second pump, it makes the primary pump work more reliably as it is.

Most people really don't have issues with the EKP, but the cars are getting older, so I do expect those numbers to increase.

BPM4 is a great controller but really, really needs to be set up correctly. Not talking down on a good product, but it's worth mentioning that we've seen several pics (and gained a couple customers!) of competitor pumps with melted connectors (stock and/or secondary pump) presumably due to “connect it, jack duty cycle up real high and see what we get for flow!”. This (melting connectors) is not something you want to mess around with. This really will rear its head with people keeping the in-tank stuff stock, not realizing their pump is screaming bloody murder, but losing a lot of flow through factory fittings/regulator/etc.

To be clear, I’m not speaking poorly of the product, I like it, just cautioning that EKP giving your pump 100% duty cycle is not necessarily the same thing as an aftermarket controller going 100%. Some baseline duty cycle numbers and power output would be useful for determining limits for the overwhelming majority of people that have stock or modified top hats. A billet top hat like BPM offers is a nice option to side step this but of course pricey.

We sell pumps with or without top hats, and can do with or without wiring kits too. Profit on a Hobbs switch is near zero (we outsourced our wiring kits anyway!), so my position is more on the objective side. I just think the guys using it should be informed on roughly what the appropriate stock-equipment limits are.

Depending on end configuration I can test at a variety of voltages and current to make sure what config you have works the way you want it to.

Chris
 
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fmorelli

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@PFS thanks for this thread. As you likely know, Z4 guys don't get to enjoy the benefits of every other BMW on the planet - a topside accessible tank pump under a seat cushion. Ours is under the car, bottom side, one hole and the LPFP actually hung inside the tank while the "filter etc" is mounted in the hole.

So that said ... any thoughts on this for the Z4? Don't know if you have any customers doing this yet with that chassis.

Thanks,

Filippo
 

PFS

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Filippo,

It could be done but you've stepped up the requirements now as it's containing fluid (and some degree of pressure, even if only that caused by fuel). I would do it a little differently than for the E series. Maybe I should pick up a used Z4 pump and play with it.

I will be announcing some DIY based "directions/kits" soon, putting access of a lot of these fittings and adapters into the hands of those who want to do their own work but maybe don't want to ground-up figure out each and every piece/part.

If you have something you'd like to work towards, I'd be happy to help out. There are other means of supplying quite a lot of extra fuel that are somewhat unconventional but effective. Is all your "stuff" mounted from the bottom, what about the equivalent of the driver's side regulator assy and the other float level?

Chris
 
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fmorelli

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Hi Chris - I'm not quite ready to solve this problem (couple other fish to finish frying, first). I'll reach out on PM when I get closer to it. Thanks,

Filippo
 
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EOSpeed

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BPM4 is a great controller but really, really needs to be set up correctly. Not talking down on a good product, but it's worth mentioning that we've seen several pics (and gained a couple customers!) of competitor pumps with melted connectors (stock and/or secondary pump) presumably due to “connect it, jack duty cycle up real high and see what we get for flow!”. This (melting connectors) is not something you want to mess around with. This really will rear its head with people keeping the in-tank stuff stock, not realizing their pump is screaming bloody murder, but losing a lot of flow through factory fittings/regulator/etc.


This is true, but that is why we recommend if you are going to use the aftermarket screws through the top hat for your secondary pump, you should upgrade the screws to either copper or brass, which have much less resistance than the "std" screws people provide. If you upgrade the screws the hats will not melt anymore, or you can go with billet tophat option which we have also. We have seen our fair share of melted relays for hobb's switches also, since we use upgraded wiring, the weakest link becomes the screws.
 
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PFS

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Thanks for entering the thread and your input on your product, appreciate you guys pushing and developing!

Chris
 
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PFS

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Does this product have a name yet? SideKick? SideShot?

This is just our "external series". Get a ton of flow with that second pump vs. running it all through stock in tank components.

As for naming, my favorite is the "drunken sailor" which is a significant step up from a double shot. ;)

Chris