Looking for Advice on a FBO Upgrade/Refresh (Single Turbo?)

Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,255
Boston
I am currently spraying 1000CC of 100% meth into my CP with two nozzles. To find out how much you need to spray for your application read:

100% methanol: 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says I should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth. I should probably run 3 smaller nozzles and aim for ~1300.

I have an aquamist full set up so it is a stand alone controller but works with the factory DME and actually sits right beside it in the box. There is a good deal of safety built in. If there is ever a disruption in flow it automatically opens the wastegates to save your engine. It's probably one of the best meth injection kits out there and the gauge and low fuel level sensor is nice. The one @Twisted Tuning offers is also good. AM has a ton of fail safes you can use and it is really advanced. The HS4 was designed for DI engines like the N54: http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-065-hfs4-v3-1-system-for-di-engines-the-most-advanced-system-to-date/

I have had zero heat management issues with my top mount fwiw. Get whatever suits you best. For 5k I wanted to see my turbo in all it's glory.

It would be fun to make a sleeper build with a bottom mount and leave all the twins inlet pipes airbox etc. in tact as much as you could. Pop the hood it looks basically 100% stock. Recirc the dump pipes, stock exhaust with maybe a cutout on the DP. Probably need AWD so you could keep the stock rims and just get sticky tires. 07 E90 white with that shit tan interior and fugly rims should would do well. Maybe run a sneaky pete NOS shot from under the passenger seat. https://www.jegs.com/i/NOS/741/05029/10002/-1
 
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fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,416
Virginia
I would go solid metal subframe bushings as said above no NVH. Should have come solid from the factory. I bought mine from Turner: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1452-rear-subframe-bushingsmount-set-turner-solid-aluminum-e82-e9x/

I would also do solid diff bushings also but you will get gear whine. I don't mind the whine but some people may: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1571-rear-differential-mounts-solid-aluminumdelrin-race-e82-e9x-f22-f3x/

Another good idea would be a diff lockdown kit:https://burgertuning.com/products/bms-differential-support-bracket-brace-for-e82-135i-and-e9x-335i
Great post all around, @Torgus. It seems to me, mostly pondering out loud, that one wants to do one or the other but not all, if NVH is a concern. If one keeps rubber in the subframe but locks down the diff mounts/bracket, then the NVH gets dealt with at the subframe bushings. If solid bushings on the subframe, then rubber handles NVH on the diff mount. But no rubber anywhere ... seems like that's where the NVH problem comes into play. Is that right? Or ... ?

While I have an E46 rear end on the Z4, we are discussing the approach on mine now ... since who runs 600whp on an E46? lol ... @[email protected] says he has another solution up his sleeve to prevent subframe movement on the E46 subframe. We'll see.

Filippo
 
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scrllock

Corporal
Dec 17, 2018
157
Great post all around, @Torgus. It seems to me, mostly pondering out loud, that one wants to do one or the other but not all, if NVH is a concern. If one keeps rubber in the subframe but locks down the diff mounts/bracket, then the NVH gets dealt with at the subframe bushings. If solid bushings on the subframe, then rubber handles NVH on the diff mount. But no rubber anywhere ... seems like that's where the NVH problem comes into play. Is that right?
Curious about this as well, anyone know if there's noticeable nvh with rubber RSFB and a diff brace? Sounds like with the brace going solid anywhere will rattle things up.
 

Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,255
Boston
Great post all around, @Torgus. It seems to me, mostly pondering out loud, that one wants to do one or the other but not all, if NVH is a concern. If one keeps rubber in the subframe but locks down the diff mounts/bracket, then the NVH gets dealt with at the subframe bushings. If solid bushings on the subframe, then rubber handles NVH on the diff mount. But no rubber anywhere ... seems like that's where the NVH problem comes into play. Is that right? Or ... ?

While I have an E46 rear end on the Z4, we are discussing the approach on mine now ... since who runs 600whp on an E46? lol ... @[email protected] says he has another solution up his sleeve to prevent subframe movement on the E46 subframe. We'll see.

Filippo
Not all of my posts are shit posts ;)

I think the best option is Solid Subframe bushings. I believe all of the newer BMWs come with solid from the factory. I think everyone should do this upgrade. The stock rubber bushings are trash. Parts are cheap it's the labor you pay to drop the sub frame and have them pressed in that is expensive. Probably more than the parts cost honestly even if you get an inexpensive shop. Again, if you do the subframe bushings do the SS brake lines while you are there. I would also suggest installing an upgraded rear sway bar if you ever plan on getting one as you have to drop the rear subframe to install that as well. Might as well knock out all 3 at once or be prepared to pay to drop the subframe more than once.

If you don't want to go solid for the diff because of noise(gear whine's pitch and loudness will vary by car) I think the M3 bushings and a diff lock down plate would be the best way to go. That way you get slightly stiffer bushings and a lockdown plate I think you should have zero gear whine. I installed both at once but I don't recall people complaining about gear whine with the lockdown plates, only when they have the solid diff bushings installed. I only notice the whine on the highway but with all the extra noises my car makes with the T51R turbo mod and slightly loud exhaust I barely notice it anymore unless I want to listen to it. Yes it is there, but there are other sounds it has to contend with to get my attention, if that makes sense.

FWIW if you want a rear diff lock down plate gent the ones that are press bended not welded. The welded ones can and have failed at the weld. I like the BMS plate: https://burgertuning.com/products/bms-differential-support-bracket-brace-for-e82-135i-and-e9x-335i
 
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Twisted Tuning

Lieutenant
Platinum Vendor
Oct 25, 2016
879
New York
Also note that @Twisted Tuning now offers a dme-integrated meth flow sensor that uses the n54 flex fuel logic if you're still looking at modern safety methods.
Thanks for the bushing advice and experience. When I get a chance it looks like I’ll need to start putting a spreadsheet together.

On the meth safety front, I got the kit way back when meth was new to the platform. It started as just cooling, so people weren’t running any safeties. Then people started relying on it for octane, then for fueling. This led to people starting to look into safeties, but if I remember correctly, Aquamist was the only Procede compatible option and it was constantly out of stock.

The Twisted Tuning kits look interesting. They seem to highly prefer the port injection method. I’m thinking if I go down the PI path I might as well use E85. The fact that you could use the DME/MHD to control it is really cool though. If I’m reading correctly, you’d have to pick between meth and running EXX via a flex fuel sensor though. I’m wondering if there is a option to do both.

For my flowguard setup, being that it uses the Flex fuel logic, you can only do one or the other currently. But if you're running meth over flex fuel, then the FG-1 setup can't be beat for DME integration. And if you happen to be using our Meth controller or torqbyte, then you have some added features and functionality you can tie into everything.

In terms of Direct Port Meth versus traditional Chargepipe or Throttle body setup. We offer both styles, but will always recommend jumping to Direct port. Why? less to no distribution issues into the intake manifold. You can fine tune the kit more. You can flow more meth without running into the issues of atomization of larger nozzle use.we've run our DP meth kits up to around 750-800whp without much issue at all other than reaching a point where nozzles needed to increase fueling.
 
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SSDD

Lurker
Jun 2, 2019
18
Alright, I'm planning to pull the trigger on this next week, so please double check me. My thought process is keep it relatively simple as this is an actual daily driver (~75 miles a day of DC traffic). I'm looking for 600-700 WHP. I tinkered around with the idea of running full time meth or PI and I think it just adds too much complexity. I'd like to do some sort of MHD dynamic flex fuel setup as I don't have E85 convenient, but it is available if I want to run higher boost. I'm thinking 500 WHP on straight 93 is doable.

General parts list:
- CES single turbo kit with Garrett GTX3582R Gen 2
- Walbro 525 (Hellcat) LPFP
- MHD custom tune
- N20 3.5 bar map sensor
- Fresh NGK plugs
- CCI/DKM Twin Disc Clutch with Steel Flywheel
- BMS High side OCC
- BMS Low side OCC
- Walnut blast

Considering:
- EOS Speed BPM4 Module? (more safely/reliably run the 525?)
- Spool Helix HPFP overdrive system? (strengthen 93 numbers, maybe add E85 headroom?)
- Motiv flex fuel module plus sensor? (automatically adjust the tune/map/boost based on current ethanol content)
- Google Nexus 7? (I'm iOS only currently, so looking for whatever the most reliable, straightforward option is for MHD)
- PR coils?
- Fresh HPFP?
- Fresh injectors?

Really not sure on:
- MHD plus Turbosmart Eboost2 with MAC (current thought)
- MHD plus Motiv BoostBox with MAC
- MHD plus JB4
 
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Rileyg

Private
Feb 6, 2019
47
Ssdd, that looks like a list that'll get you where you want to be. I have the ces kit and it's very high quality. They have hit the power goals you are looking for with the exact set up you have listed. I'm currently waiting on fueling upgrades to arrive to get my kit turned up. I don't think you be disappointed.
 
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SSDD

Lurker
Jun 2, 2019
18
Ssdd, that looks like a list that'll get you where you want to be. I have the ces kit and it's very high quality. They have hit the power goals you are looking for with the exact set up you have listed. I'm currently waiting on fueling upgrades to arrive to get my kit turned up. I don't think you be disappointed.
I'm glad to hear you're happy with yours. Can I ask what fueling mods you have/are adding? Also, what tuning solution did you go with?
 

scrllock

Corporal
Dec 17, 2018
157
You definitely need the bpm4 if you're running the 525 as your sole lpfp. Probably need the overdrive for that power level. Possibly their forthcoming extreme version if you want to get up towards 700. Nexus 7 is fine, a proclip comes in super handy.
Motiv flex fuel box is the only flex game out there. You don't *need* the PR kit but nice to have.
 
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SSDD

Lurker
Jun 2, 2019
18
You definitely need the bpm4 if you're running the 525 as your sole lpfp. Probably need the overdrive for that power level. Possibly their forthcoming extreme version if you want to get up towards 700. Nexus 7 is fine, a proclip comes in super handy.
Motiv flex fuel box is the only flex game out there. You don't *need* the PR kit but nice to have. My setup is geared towards similar power goals
Thanks. I'm a little hessitant about the Spool overdrive obviously because it's new, but also because they seemed to have abandoned their annoucement thread. I haven't seen them answer any questions in quite a while. Also, it sounds like most tuners don't have the new variables/parameters to work with.
 
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Rileyg

Private
Feb 6, 2019
47
I'm glad to hear you're happy with yours. Can I ask what fueling mods you have/are adding? Also, what tuning solution did you go with?
I ordered the EOS billet fuel system with two walbro 450's and the bmp4 controller. I'll get the flex fuel module and pi via fabfactory intake manifold. Currently I'm running jb4 with backend flash. Will probably go with a pro tune when I install the flex fuel module.
 
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works

Private
Mar 1, 2018
34
If you car has this much miles on it, I'd recommend going SMFW immediately. You'll sidestep a lot of phantom misfires from cyl5-6 if you change to SMFW as I found out with a 140k km "old" DMFW and just stage1 twins and flex fuel. I'm using the springless 335is/550i clutch with M-Factory SMFW and absolutely love how incredibly direct the driveline is. With clutch delay valve delete it is definitely a bit more unforgiving to drive than the normal setup, but at least I adjusted to it very easily as it is extremely consistent and predictable.
 
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scrllock

Corporal
Dec 17, 2018
157
Thanks. I'm a little hessitant about the Spool overdrive obviously because it's new, but also because they seemed to have abandoned their annoucement thread. I haven't seen them answer any questions in quite a while. Also, it sounds like most tuners don't have the new variables/parameters to work with.
I reached out to Twisted to see if he's got the tables yet, but preorders haven't shipped and I'm not exactly in a rush to get it installed. Definitely with you there, gonna let mine wait til I see what sort of issues people have first. You can always run PI, or wait for the m18 or xdi pumps to come out.
 
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SSDD

Lurker
Jun 2, 2019
18
If you car has this much miles on it, I'd recommend going SMFW immediately. You'll sidestep a lot of phantom misfires from cyl5-6 if you change to SMFW as I found out with a 140k km "old" DMFW and just stage1 twins and flex fuel. I'm using the springless 335is/550i clutch with M-Factory SMFW and absolutely love how incredibly direct the driveline is. With clutch delay valve delete it is definitely a bit more unforgiving to drive than the normal setup, but at least I adjusted to it very easily as it is extremely consistent and predictable.
Thanks. I will be going with a steel SMFW as part of my clutch upgrade. I did the clutch delay valve modification years ago. I’m hoping to do the full delete when we do the clutch.
 

SSDD

Lurker
Jun 2, 2019
18
I reached out to Twisted to see if he's got the tables yet, but preorders haven't shipped and I'm not exactly in a rush to get it installed. Definitely with you there, gonna let mine wait til I see what sort of issues people have first. You can always run PI, or wait for the m18 or xdi pumps to come out.
I don’t have much wrenching time these days, so my goal thus far has been to identify the full scope of modifications I want to do and get them done in one session, but I’m thinking it may be best to see how this shakes out.

I’m wondering if adding this later to a custom tune would be easy to update remotely.
 

works

Private
Mar 1, 2018
34
Thanks. I will be going with a steel SMFW as part of my clutch upgrade. I did the clutch delay valve modification years ago. I’m hoping to do the full delete when we do the clutch.
Do remember to ask your tuner to implement the latest throttle filtering changes that were found some months ago. I've gotten all my throttle filtration zeroed out and that definitely helps with the driveline directness, which I completely forgot to add to my previous post. More details can be found from here:

 
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tisdrew

Corporal
Jun 27, 2017
132
Alright, I'm planning to pull the trigger on this next week, so please double check me. My thought process is keep it relatively simple as this is an actual daily driver (~75 miles a day of DC traffic). I'm looking for 600-700 WHP. I tinkered around with the idea of running full time meth or PI and I think it just adds too much complexity. I'd like to do some sort of MHD dynamic flex fuel setup as I don't have E85 convenient, but it is available if I want to run higher boost. I'm thinking 500 WHP on straight 93 is doable.

General parts list:
- CES single turbo kit with Garrett GTX3582R Gen 2
- Walbro 525 (Hellcat) LPFP
- MHD custom tune
- N20 3.5 bar map sensor
- Fresh NGK plugs
- CCI/DKM Twin Disc Clutch with Steel Flywheel
- BMS High side OCC
- BMS Low side OCC
- Walnut blast

Considering:
- EOS Speed BPM4 Module? (more safely/reliably run the 525?)
- Spool Helix HPFP overdrive system? (strengthen 93 numbers, maybe add E85 headroom?)
- Motiv flex fuel module plus sensor? (automatically adjust the tune/map/boost based on current ethanol content)
- Google Nexus 7? (I'm iOS only currently, so looking for whatever the most reliable, straightforward option is for MHD)
- PR coils?
- Fresh HPFP?
- Fresh injectors?

Really not sure on:
- MHD plus Turbosmart Eboost2 with MAC (current thought)
- MHD plus Motiv BoostBox with MAC
- MHD plus JB4
Turbo seems a bit too big for this power goal.
Twin Disc is overkill at a 5/650 power goal. A Spec 3+ will be more friendly but if money isn't a problem, you can find twin discs that are street friendly carbon materials instead of all-the-clamping-force.
Yes, definitely do a walnut blast!
I would not get the overdrive system at this time. You'll hit 500whp on just DI/stock hpfp no problem.
PR coils are probably overkill.
If you have index 12 injectors, I don't think getting "fresh" ones is worth the cost.
I see lots of for-sale posts on the boostbox on FB.
 
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Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,255
Boston
Turbo seems a bit too big for this power goal.
Twin Disc is overkill at a 5/650 power goal. A Spec 3+ will be more friendly but if money isn't a problem, you can find twin discs that are street friendly carbon materials instead of all-the-clamping-force.
Yes, definitely do a walnut blast!
I would not get the overdrive system at this time. You'll hit 500whp on just DI/stock hpfp no problem.
PR coils are probably overkill.
If you have index 12 injectors, I don't think getting "fresh" ones is worth the cost.
I see lots of for-sale posts on the boostbox on FB.
All of this. I was too lazy to type it all out but he is 100% correct given the stated goals.
 

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