Mmp1000 highest mileage cars?
- Thread starter LifeDies
- Start date
Kinda hard to get feedback on a product, that losses its warranty if you post about a failure....
I've had the MMP 1Ks on my car for around 10k miles now give or take 1k, with absolutely 0 issues. I've been running them at ~26-27.9PSI depending on IATs and whatever else the DME takes into account, with only LPFP modifications and they still pull to redline perfectly, and FWIW I've been able to beat everything from a modded STI (easy mode) to a Hellcat (by about 3 car lengths) to a slightly modded m4 comp (very close, he was at my bumper both times) on some "Mexico digs". I've also posted logs on here where my spool time even bested what Mauricio advertises them to spool at on a 6MT and I'm in a 6AT, so I'm a huge fan.
In the MMP group on FB you can find much more info on longevity than in most forum postings. Lots of people running them passed 20k miles already with no issues, and I believe Eugene was able to run his 1Ks at 30PSI for 30-something thousand before he blew something in his engine - and that seems to be the most common reason people stop counting miles, not due to turbo failure. I've seen way more posts about people blowing their engine with stage 3s or 1ks than I've seen of any failures, probably a 10:1 ratio and the only failures I can think of were on the stage 3 1.0s. With the upgraded exhaust manifold and larger turbine housing of the 1Ks and the gen 2 stage 3s, I dont think you have any reason to worry about blowing the turbos unless your tune is off and you dont have the proper supporting parts.
I finally (literally an hour ago received the package) got something that will help me push my fueling more, and I plan on turning up the boost some more and aiming for a minimum of a solid 700whp now that I'll be switching tunes. Granted I do take extra care with my car and do preventative maintenance or preventative upgrades probably more than most on the platform, but my engine is at 133k stock everything at this moment. I'll be having coated rod bearings along with a crank hub solution installed to once again do some preventative modifications for higher power, but I fully plan on using this car how it's meant to be with my current setup and expect another solid amount of miles before anything goes wrong judging by past performance and the things I'll be doing to/with it.
In the MMP group on FB you can find much more info on longevity than in most forum postings. Lots of people running them passed 20k miles already with no issues, and I believe Eugene was able to run his 1Ks at 30PSI for 30-something thousand before he blew something in his engine - and that seems to be the most common reason people stop counting miles, not due to turbo failure. I've seen way more posts about people blowing their engine with stage 3s or 1ks than I've seen of any failures, probably a 10:1 ratio and the only failures I can think of were on the stage 3 1.0s. With the upgraded exhaust manifold and larger turbine housing of the 1Ks and the gen 2 stage 3s, I dont think you have any reason to worry about blowing the turbos unless your tune is off and you dont have the proper supporting parts.
I finally (literally an hour ago received the package) got something that will help me push my fueling more, and I plan on turning up the boost some more and aiming for a minimum of a solid 700whp now that I'll be switching tunes. Granted I do take extra care with my car and do preventative maintenance or preventative upgrades probably more than most on the platform, but my engine is at 133k stock everything at this moment. I'll be having coated rod bearings along with a crank hub solution installed to once again do some preventative modifications for higher power, but I fully plan on using this car how it's meant to be with my current setup and expect another solid amount of miles before anything goes wrong judging by past performance and the things I'll be doing to/with it.
+1 The facebook group "MMP Enthusiasts" has more details from owners.
I have MMP3's and Eugene says that unless you have a built engine the 1ks are overkill as the 3's have enough spool and power to bend rods. My mechanic and tuner both agree that north of 7 you need rods+pistons if you want longevity.
I have MMP3's and Eugene says that unless you have a built engine the 1ks are overkill as the 3's have enough spool and power to bend rods. My mechanic and tuner both agree that north of 7 you need rods+pistons if you want longevity.
Interesting. I read somewhere that one can bend rods with stock turbos with too aggressive a tune?
Filippo
MMP used to be VERY active on the forums. I remember them going back and forth with VTT. MMP left the forums to move to facebook where, in my opinion, they control the narrative. It is very hard to search on FB unlike a forum. This is why you will not find a lot of information on them here or any forum. I think they don't like the idea of a failure being easily searched and recorded permanently on the forum. Again, FB is basically impossible to search.
I think MMP took a page out of the VTT rule book that if you post online before contacting them your warranty is potentially compromised. This also controls the narrative and limits you hearing about failures.
The MMPs are falsely advertised as being good for 450-1000hp. One, they don't make 1000 hp. Two, there is no way a turbo can be designed to be optimal at both 450hp and also 1k hp. That and the warranty would make me concerned as a customer. Why not check out the @Rob@RBTurbo new turbos he just realed the "Game Finishers" or what @Hydra Performance is cooking up? Those are the two options I would strap on to my car right now, with @PureTurbo being in 3rd place.
FWIW fully optioned out MMPs cost as much as a single turbo basically. $4,300 same as a DR or ACF journal bearing 6466 single turbo kit which are inherently more reliable. Just a thought but if you are set on twins make sure you are giving your money with the company that has the least chance of failure given the labor of the install.
I believe I recall seeing stock turbos which have slightly bent the stock rods. Probably 100% E85 and not tuning out any of the low end tq just trying to make the most dyno friendly numbers if you will. Most people tune out some of the low end tq the stock or upgraded twins make because of the fear of bending rods I believe. Also, it's not easy to put down 600WTQ at 2k. Sure it makes it fun to hoon around town with the surge of low end tq and breaking traction very easily but I think most people who are smart tune some of it out so the dyno curve would look closer to a single where you see the tq come in a bit later.
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I'm still waiting on someone with the 1K's to come to me with a built engine so i can see what they will really do instead of just an advertisement. we've made almost 750whp on the regular MMP Stg3's
this is 100% true. It doesn't take much to bend rods. Can be to much torque down low. or a mix of too much torque and detonation. Made close to 600tq on stock turbos, so yea its possible.
I'm a member of the group, being an MMP customer. I've had nothing good support from Mauricio. I will also say I've never seen anything negative posted on the group, and I know the posts are moderated because the last time I posted, I never saw the post hit, but received a message from Eugene asking why I needed the info I was requesting. It was an odd dialog as I was asking about v-band clamp size and was told that was proprietary info ... isn't that like saying shoe size is proprietary info? Can't any owner can easily measure and post it?
To the OP's question, I did jump on the MMP forum and did a search for "1K" - At least in the last 8 months, I found no references to your question of mileage/longevity related posts. That said, if you are interested in MMP 1K's I highly suggest you join the MMP Facebook Group. People do discuss their installs, and post various information.
Filippo
Yep, Mauricio is very customer-friendly and very open to discussing things and even often times cutting discounts to people in certain situations. All of my interactions with him have been very pleasant too. I will say that Eugene is a nice enough guy when I've talked to him, but I think he's more "watchdog-y" than Mauricio about stuff. When I asked Eugene before talking to Mauricio he said that he couldn't give me a solid answer but probably not, and then when I discussed it directly with Mauricio it was a very easy conversation where he was more than happy to help out and even gave more than I was originally asking for. I think it's mostly like asking an hourly employee vs. a manager kinda thing in my perspective- Eugene is just probably just enforcing rules as hes told and sometimes may do it more than necessary in order to be doing his job "right".
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Usually we hear a lot behind the scenes, which we share and then get pounded on it and next up is some screen shot about a product of ours which failed from 2015 or the like. The perks of being around and continuously shipping turbos since 2010, a war story is alway going to surface especially on products that are so many years out of warranty and there is nothing to lose anymore.
As such there is always going to be some problems (no matter what) but it is the universal failure mode issues that are so easily swept up under the rug, for products that are currently still being sold, this is where the problems lie with some vendors. The whole forum post and warranty void deal is pretty crazy too, as noted above it makes it pretty hard to get the real stories; but at the same time pretty genius to keep the product optimism high online to keep the sales machine ticking.
In regards to the MMP 1K's JB product in particular it has been pretty quiet. Usually that is a good thing although it is a pretty young product in the field at maybe just over a year old, maybe it just needs more time for customers to vent? At this point really only the manufacturer and probably only some select product adopters would know if they are seeing any issues, the problem being is that are they going share any of it or not?
What is odd is that we have seen a tremendous amount of them for sale, usually just rebuilt, since intro and that is never a good sign either. Maybe that just means people are buying them and tanking their engines and getting them rebuilt for good measure prior to moving to their ST kits, or maybe even leaving the platform due to the headaches. Not sure.
Sounds like Panzerfaust has put them through the ringer in his time with them and they are still kicking, so that is a good thing.
Rob
As such there is always going to be some problems (no matter what) but it is the universal failure mode issues that are so easily swept up under the rug, for products that are currently still being sold, this is where the problems lie with some vendors. The whole forum post and warranty void deal is pretty crazy too, as noted above it makes it pretty hard to get the real stories; but at the same time pretty genius to keep the product optimism high online to keep the sales machine ticking.
In regards to the MMP 1K's JB product in particular it has been pretty quiet. Usually that is a good thing although it is a pretty young product in the field at maybe just over a year old, maybe it just needs more time for customers to vent? At this point really only the manufacturer and probably only some select product adopters would know if they are seeing any issues, the problem being is that are they going share any of it or not?
What is odd is that we have seen a tremendous amount of them for sale, usually just rebuilt, since intro and that is never a good sign either. Maybe that just means people are buying them and tanking their engines and getting them rebuilt for good measure prior to moving to their ST kits, or maybe even leaving the platform due to the headaches. Not sure.
Sounds like Panzerfaust has put them through the ringer in his time with them and they are still kicking, so that is a good thing.
Rob
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Thanks for the replies. I will pass on MMP. Looking forward to what @hyand @Rob@RBTurbo release. Rob, I searched for game finishers on the forum, didn't find anything. Any links?
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
No worries on the RB GF's, think we are now sold out of the intro batch until more supplies are in (prob 30+ days out yet). Besides they are brand new, so we would not be able to offer you any longevity results on them anyway.
Thanks,
Rob
I found the resale of rebuilt 1Ks odd as well before ordering, and it was the one thing making me slightly cautious- but after talking to several of the people who did it, it sounds like they were expecting the 1Ks to be the same as a ST setup which they just wont be - they're still twins and inherently will be different. From what I've heard and gathered from sellers before buying, the whole "rebuilding before selling" thing has been more so the use of a benefit that MMP offers (inspection + rebuild to transfer warranty for a third party sale) in order to sell quicker and make sure the buyer isnt getting screwed over with bad turbos.
I've definitely been very happy with mine and have definitely put them through their paces a fair amount with plans to go even further - I wanted the overhead of the 1Ks even though my goal isnt 850whp, let alone 1000 - and am confident they'll handle it very well, so I will always recommend 1Ks to people who may be able to use them "properly" or need something that's more capable than your standard PS2s etc, and I really like the idea of having custom manifolds let alone the larger A/R housing and coated bearings on a turbo such as this vs what were at the time a year ago the other high-output twin options.
That said, I'm certainly excited to see what the @Hydra Performance HP800s will be doing on a regular N54 or N54 with N53 head vs Omar's amazing but likely-forever-one-off engine, and from the few bits of info I've heard about your upcoming offering @Rob@RBTurbo , I'm definitely excited to see what theyll be doing too. One of my favorite things about car modding is all the different routes and builds people take to get to a certain point, and I'm a huge fan of twin turbos so more big boys on the market the better in my eyes. I do hope to be one of, if not the first TT car to run the times I want to at the strip, but healthy competition is always fun too.
I'm just tired of seeing cheap top-mount manifolds with clearance issues, modified to fit a 6266 and a dyno chart with a 650-700whp peak for 100rpms and a boring power curve, especially when they run times that arent much better than FBO+ stock turbo cars honestly
but hey, maybe I'm wrong and everyone on FB with a credit card DOES have the fastest N54 in the world even if they're on 19's and can only race from 40mph 
I will admit that I was a big fan of Mauricio's at first. He presented theory and then applied it, rather than just random changes. I still like his engineering approach, just not his business style.
I've had no issues with my mmp s3s but I feel I am very fortunate. Based on first hand knowledge which sadly cannot be shared publicly (think absolutely absurd NDA) I will NEVER recommend MMP again. The problem I have is that shit happens and products fail from time to time. When you treat a customer with no respect, give them the shaft, and then force an NDA, I lose all respect.
Its no secret here that I'm not a fan of RB or his 'advertising' but I would buy RB turbos before I touched mmp turbos again. (That sentence hurt like hell to write!)
Right now I think for hybrids, Hydra is the best bet. He presents his product in an upstanding manner, though after-sales service is something yet to be seen, and I think a US presence would be helpful.
The funniest part of it is after I said on FB I wouldn't recommend MMP, he messaged me asking me "why don't you like me anymore" like he's an 8 year old.
If all of you REALLY think that all of the people selling the 1Ks that have been 'inspected and refreshed' and aren't warranty repairs with NDAs, you're fooling yourselves.
His looney NDA is likely unenforceable, yet just enough FUD to keep people quiet. They want to keep the resale as high as they can to dump them.
I've had no issues with my mmp s3s but I feel I am very fortunate. Based on first hand knowledge which sadly cannot be shared publicly (think absolutely absurd NDA) I will NEVER recommend MMP again. The problem I have is that shit happens and products fail from time to time. When you treat a customer with no respect, give them the shaft, and then force an NDA, I lose all respect.
Its no secret here that I'm not a fan of RB or his 'advertising' but I would buy RB turbos before I touched mmp turbos again. (That sentence hurt like hell to write!)
Right now I think for hybrids, Hydra is the best bet. He presents his product in an upstanding manner, though after-sales service is something yet to be seen, and I think a US presence would be helpful.
The funniest part of it is after I said on FB I wouldn't recommend MMP, he messaged me asking me "why don't you like me anymore" like he's an 8 year old.
If all of you REALLY think that all of the people selling the 1Ks that have been 'inspected and refreshed' and aren't warranty repairs with NDAs, you're fooling yourselves.
His looney NDA is likely unenforceable, yet just enough FUD to keep people quiet. They want to keep the resale as high as they can to dump them.
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Well it felt really good to quote sir. Usually it takes a bit of time but most eventually swing back around. Also well agree that when a consumer bolts-up some turbos that chances are nil that they are going to want to remove them anytime soon if they don't have to, especially an oil change or two later.
As for Panzerfaust you sure you are at ~10k miles on them? Just did a bit of skimming on your posts, looks like you may have installed ~8 months ago and had the car in storage over a long winter? Just wanted to see if you can check that again, perhaps you just are always on the move but that seems like a lot for a toy car over a short period of time and across a stored winter.
Rob
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Don't want to stray too far OT, but I've already sold half a dozen of these heads would you believe, so my engine is far from unique anymore.
I ran the original MMP stage 3's for a little less than a year before they were smoking regularly. First 3k miles were ~24psi last 3k were 26-30psi. I would occasionally see smoke on decel after only about 2k miles on them, didn't think too much of it until it became the norm when decelerating and even sometimes at idle. From MMP's request went thru the whole list of bullshit (3 different PCV systems, high flow drains, multiple different oils, etc.) finally put a newer low-mileage motor in because I/MMP was convinced it was the valve stem seals. New motor in, same exact issue. Finally pulled them off and sent them into MMP for a rebuild before selling them.
While I 100% wish I went single turbo from the beginning, I did enjoy the MMP's when running well/not burning oil. Put down 640whp on 26psi e60 fuel, ran 11.7@130 and 159 in the 1/2. But overall they were not worth the hassle, and if someone asks I would recommend a more well established, higher volume seller like the ones mentioned in this thread. But - I've never been happier with the car after going single, even if the powerband or response isn't the same
While I 100% wish I went single turbo from the beginning, I did enjoy the MMP's when running well/not burning oil. Put down 640whp on 26psi e60 fuel, ran 11.7@130 and 159 in the 1/2. But overall they were not worth the hassle, and if someone asks I would recommend a more well established, higher volume seller like the ones mentioned in this thread. But - I've never been happier with the car after going single, even if the powerband or response isn't the same
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
I ran the original MMP stage 3's for a little less than a year before they were smoking regularly. First 3k miles were ~24psi last 3k were 26-30psi. I would occasionally see smoke on decel after only about 2k miles on them, didn't think too much of it until it became the norm when decelerating and even sometimes at idle. From MMP's request went thru the whole list of bullshit (3 different PCV systems, high flow drains, multiple different oils, etc.) finally put a newer low-mileage motor in because I/MMP was convinced it was the valve stem seals. New motor in, same exact issue. Finally pulled them off and sent them into MMP for a rebuild before selling them.
While I 100% wish I went single turbo from the beginning, I did enjoy the MMP's when running well/not burning oil. Put down 640whp on 26psi e60 fuel, ran 11.7@130 and 159 in the 1/2. But overall they were not worth the hassle, and if someone asks I would recommend a more well established, higher volume seller like the ones mentioned in this thread. But - I've never been happier with the car after going single, even if the powerband or response isn't the same
Heard a ton of these stories over the past few years, and sold lots of drains and PCV systems to them accordingly. Warned many it would not be their resolve, but they had to go in the way regardless for the sake of troubleshooting. Also many of these guys were held over for the cast option, a bit more leverage that helped keep them a loyal customer along with being armed with the "latest and greatest" when the smoke settled. The general MMP feedback has been good performance, albeit mostly very typical for most Stage 2ish options, but simply very unreliable.
Big reason why we discontinued our largest offerings a few years back and opted out of competing with other vendors "30psi everyday? No problem we got ya!" mentality. It just makes zero sense to run these types of JB turbos/small hotsides in that range and expect long life, back pressure is eventually going to push some hardware off the cliff. It also makes no sense for the vendors to be supportive of it, aside for remaining to be a top seller in the POWA category.
For these reasons we have been very open about efficient operation day in and day out, using hardware responsibly, and understanding the difference between that and abuse while picking out a turbo upgrade that will suit ones end goals accordingly. Many of times that meant sending potential customers over to a ST vendor and losing a sale in the process. Meanwhile you have others advertising one single product as the best available for anywhere from 450-1,000hp.
All of this aside it will certainly be interesting to see how some of these new cast options fair, those that actually have a well designed hot side that is...
Rob
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I see more 'freshly rebuilt with warranty' mmp turbos for sale more than probably every twin vendor combined on the used market. There has to be a reason for it. My guess would be they have issues and get them rebuilt and then decide to buy either a single or twins with a better reputation. I mean if you liked the turbos why would you not just install them again? Why would so many be removed given the cost of labor? It just does not add up.
MMP should be paying you for installing a new engine. Jesus.
But - I've never been happier with the car after going single, even if the powerband or response isn't the same
Same.
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