Technical N54 Phenolic fibre fuel rail gaskets.
- Thread starter martymil
- Start date
Thanks @martymil. To make it even easier for those in the US (and who don't use ECS):
8 x phenolic washers either m8 or 5/16 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Tattoo...hers-5-16-Coil-Parts-Made-In-USA/232779584853 (lifetime supply - share with friends)
4 x m7 or 5/16 stainless or equivalent washers - https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOUR-CHOIC...TEEL-DIN-125-METRIC-FLAT-WASHERS/293176283785
4 x m7 n54 turbo manifold studs (11127593376) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-exhaust-manifold-stud-11127593376
4 x m7 inlet manifold nuts (07129905541) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-hex-nut-07129905541
1 x Tube of anti-seize - local parts store
Filippo
8 x phenolic washers either m8 or 5/16 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Tattoo...hers-5-16-Coil-Parts-Made-In-USA/232779584853 (lifetime supply - share with friends)
4 x m7 or 5/16 stainless or equivalent washers - https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOUR-CHOIC...TEEL-DIN-125-METRIC-FLAT-WASHERS/293176283785
4 x m7 n54 turbo manifold studs (11127593376) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-exhaust-manifold-stud-11127593376
4 x m7 inlet manifold nuts (07129905541) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-hex-nut-07129905541
1 x Tube of anti-seize - local parts store
Filippo
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John, I think a small touch of confusion here. There are two manifold studs - 68mm is for the intake side. 39mm is exhaust side. If you look at Marty's photos, it shows the shorter exhaust side studs. M7x39mm (see link in above post). What may have confused is that he said "inlet manifold" for the nuts, but he said "turbo manifold" for the studs.
Filippo
Thank you Filippo. I seem to only have a 50% accuracy hit rate when trying to order small parts like these.
ORDERED!
Wouldn’t the heat transfer go from the stud back to the top side of the rail?
These phenolic washers are just delaying the heat transfer rate, but eventually the rail after some time will reach a steady state temperature.
These phenolic washers are just delaying the heat transfer rate, but eventually the rail after some time will reach a steady state temperature.
Thats why we put a phenolic washer under the nut too.
Well I took the car out yesterday out for some essential errands and the car measured 50c or 122f +/- a few deg, head was 208f steady.
Mind you this is on my setup so not directly comparable to a stock setup.
Well I took the car out yesterday out for some essential errands and the car measured 50c or 122f +/- a few deg, head was 208f steady.
Mind you this is on my setup so not directly comparable to a stock setup.
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The next question: how to measure the impact of this?
Is fuel in this chamber long enough to make a difference?
What are the octane calcs and where is temp in there?
How does this impact effective octane ratings?
I know RON is a low temp/speed rating and MON is the high temp/speed rating. Can someone smarter than me turn this into a temp-> octane equation or an octane/temp relationship?
Is fuel in this chamber long enough to make a difference?
What are the octane calcs and where is temp in there?
How does this impact effective octane ratings?
I know RON is a low temp/speed rating and MON is the high temp/speed rating. Can someone smarter than me turn this into a temp-> octane equation or an octane/temp relationship?
There is very little gain on power but there will be some benefits in
HPFP fuel pressure due to fuel density and car uses less of it to meet the same target.
Knock resistance due to cooler fuel
Lower cylinder temps due to direct injection effects on cylinder cooling
Longevity of injectors
Lower egts
How much benefit is impossible to measure without great expense/time, likely be minimal but be
better then none especially when you live in a hot climate.
When your on the edge the there is a very fine line between clean/average or bad run and this might just hold of that missfire.
HPFP fuel pressure due to fuel density and car uses less of it to meet the same target.
Knock resistance due to cooler fuel
Lower cylinder temps due to direct injection effects on cylinder cooling
Longevity of injectors
Lower egts
How much benefit is impossible to measure without great expense/time, likely be minimal but be
better then none especially when you live in a hot climate.
When your on the edge the there is a very fine line between clean/average or bad run and this might just hold of that missfire.
This mod seems logical to me.
It is thermal decoupling. The direct contact has always the best heat conductivity (of course it is depending on the heat transferring materials). Once you de-couple elements from each other you have to start looking into the heat conductivity potential of the other elements that still retain a heat transferring path.
The phenolic washer certainly will not be a good heat transferring material. That is a plus.
The studs will also have worse capabilities. Also goodygoodgood.
I like this mod as it is easy to do and will have an effect.
But leaning out of the window and discussing possible effects and their intensity without proper testing equipment is not appropriate.
The effect could be 0.1% or less but also significantly higher. We simply don´t know and most probably never will.
I am thankful that @martymil shared his idea and everybody should make up his own mind if its a go or no go for himself.
I will definitely do it as its cheap af.
It is thermal decoupling. The direct contact has always the best heat conductivity (of course it is depending on the heat transferring materials). Once you de-couple elements from each other you have to start looking into the heat conductivity potential of the other elements that still retain a heat transferring path.
The phenolic washer certainly will not be a good heat transferring material. That is a plus.
The studs will also have worse capabilities. Also goodygoodgood.
I like this mod as it is easy to do and will have an effect.
But leaning out of the window and discussing possible effects and their intensity without proper testing equipment is not appropriate.
The effect could be 0.1% or less but also significantly higher. We simply don´t know and most probably never will.
I am thankful that @martymil shared his idea and everybody should make up his own mind if its a go or no go for himself.
I will definitely do it as its cheap af.
All I can tell you the car feels a lot smoother, stronger and the logs look cleaner.
I can feel the benefit in the way the car drives but I know my car really well and how it responds to mods.
I only have a partial log but it already looks much better than previous runs, stft's are down timing is cleaner.
It just looks perfect.
I can feel the benefit in the way the car drives but I know my car really well and how it responds to mods.
I only have a partial log but it already looks much better than previous runs, stft's are down timing is cleaner.
It just looks perfect.
Super interesting idea/mod/conclusions. Thank you for sharing this!
Just ordered all the parts because, why not. It's the little things that add up to make big progress.
Great idea if it reduces corrections. Have you guys considered running nylon bolts that have no thermal conductivity?
Also, is this https://datazap.me/u/martymil/log-1...13-23-27&solo=8-9-10-11-12&zoom=43-91&mark=61 on exactly the same map and same octane fuel?
This is a nice simple mod but honestly I don't believe there will be any performance gain in terms of octane.
I run water methanol injection and I once tried storing my water/meth in a freezer for 24 hours. I also stored 20 litres of ethanol in the freezer before pouring it into my tank.
I saw no performance gain. I will assume that anyone wanting to run a powerful N54 will be using an ethanol blend or water meth. Basically increasing the temp of 1 gram of ethanol by 1C requires 2.2 joules. So even 100C is just 220 joules. However phase change is where things get serious. To change that 1 gram of ethanol from liquid to gas requires 854J. This is what happens as soon as the ethanol is sprayed into the hot cylinder. It's why ethanol has such a great cooling ability. Cooling the cylinder and the air charge. That's one factor that gives ethanol it's high octane rating. So a difference of even 100f in the fuel rail will have little impact. However it is potentially beneficial as a coolant to the injectors and may well improve longevity.
The power benefit is minimal from fuel temp but the benefit is there from
Cylinder cooling, less timing pull more power.
Lower egt's
Lower iats due to lower egt's so turbos dont run as hot.
How much difference is anybody's guess until tested and due to covid-19 its not going to happen anytime soon.
@Threetirtyfive Yes same setup and fuel if that's the log from the last meet at drags.
As soon as they open the strip I'll be going there to test it again.
Cylinder cooling, less timing pull more power.
Lower egt's
Lower iats due to lower egt's so turbos dont run as hot.
How much difference is anybody's guess until tested and due to covid-19 its not going to happen anytime soon.
@Threetirtyfive Yes same setup and fuel if that's the log from the last meet at drags.
As soon as they open the strip I'll be going there to test it again.
I seen some test that gained around 2hp from cooler fuel on a NA car, but I'm sceptical.
I'm more inclined to believe the gain was from lower cylinder temps but not the actual fuel.
This is a 2 dollar mod, don't expect earth shattering gains if any.
I went to do a job inspection today in my 1m the surface temp difference was 42c or 107f between the head/rail and
it was measured 2min after the engine was switched off.
As stated how much benefit I dont know but no matter how you look at it, who wouldn't do this for 2 dollars worth of washers.
I'm more inclined to believe the gain was from lower cylinder temps but not the actual fuel.
This is a 2 dollar mod, don't expect earth shattering gains if any.
I went to do a job inspection today in my 1m the surface temp difference was 42c or 107f between the head/rail and
it was measured 2min after the engine was switched off.
As stated how much benefit I dont know but no matter how you look at it, who wouldn't do this for 2 dollars worth of washers.
