New HPFP Upgrade - SpoolPerformance Helix

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Traf

Corporal
Aug 3, 2017
176
Thats why people were so secretive about the porsche pumps.
I believe this is the pump they are using, and it is huge, so if it turns out to be working then no more fuel problems i'm sure.
it is funny cause some people knew for a very long time about these pums....

4976110709.jpg

4976110907.jpg
 
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Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
575
Chicago
There is nothing you can do to increase flow through the stock pump inlet, its that restrictive no matter how big your lpfp system is unless they modified the pump internal passages in some way.

But lets wait for the details.
If it were the case that, no matter what, ODing the pump wouldnt allow better flow due to the inlet then would the shotgun setups not work also? That's all I'm getting at here.

We have ways of increasing LPFP pressure up to many psi over stock and the HPFP handles it just fine instead of the stock LPFP flow, thanks to tuning and other things. The same LPFP upgrades are required when doing a shotgun setup too. I know you're saying it's the HPFP Inlet that is the issue - and I'm sure at some point theres diminishing returns on overdriving the HPFP - but who's to say VTT maxed out that flow all around for sure? As was mentioned early in this thread by I believe @doublespaces , theres more going on here than the single picture publicly available would leave you to believe.

I dont mean any of this as an attack on you, @martymil but dont you run the DB shotgun? You've seen first hand that over driving the pump is a feasible solution. I dont want to go as far as others have and say you're defending VTT due to a business partnership, but for the sake of the platform's progression - why try to discount any part of the product that so few know anything about yet? I'm sure a handful of people would like to speak up on everything to quell the rumors about issues, but we arent at the point yet where that's possible. Not everyone wants to pull a Misfire Racing.
 

Jeffman

Captain
Jan 7, 2017
1,321
Thats why people were so secretive about the porsche pumps.
I believe this is the pump they are using, and it is huge, so if it turns out to be working then no more fuel problems i'm sure.
it is funny cause some people knew for a very long time about these pums....


That Porsche HPFP looks like the one for a 4.8L V8 Porsche Cayenne, which makes sense power-wise, and available on Amazon for about $560 (free shipping!):
OSIAS New High Pressure Fuel Pump For 4.8L V8 Porsche Cayenne Panamera 2011-15 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074FTYHGK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_FA3eDbYP7B0HD

But how to stuff it into an N54 beats the hell out of me!
 
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langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
966
Not sure why BB focused the article on the porsche pump, the other M18 solution is the front runner and will have some pretty cool options to support very high WHP DI only.
But will whatever solution that comes out be cost competitive enough to displace PI? I think that is the ultimate barrier. The shotgun is a great idea, but the single shotgun doesn't provide enough supplementary fuel to justify it's cost and the double shotgun is pretty expensive once you also factor in a second HPFP.
 
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fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,458
Virginia
But will whatever solution that comes out be cost competitive enough to displace PI? I think that is the ultimate barrier.
I'm unconvinced that's the ultimate barrier. For some there is value to running one fueling system, not two. If that was not the case, I'd have a BMP on the shelf right now. I have others asking about when DI solutions are showing up as they prefer not to run both PI and DI.

Filippo
 
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Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,320
Boston
I agree 100% DI only would be my preferred method as well. Let the DME do it's J O B. I would pay more not to ever have to deal with PI. Which in turn means a slightly less expensive aftermarket intake manifold and a simpler fuel system over all.
 

[email protected]

Lieutenant
Dec 7, 2016
626
St. Louis, MO USA
Crazy, I remember talking with Steve at Fuel-It (before he became Fuel-It) about adapting in that Porsche HPFP setup. He seemed pretty hot and heavy on it, so I'd be willing to bet there was some snag keeping it from becoming a reality. Ultimately would be very nice to just have some very capable HPFP, off the shelf with no extra wear-item-like-do-hickeys, to just slap on and call it a day. Yet here we all are 7+ years later trying to figure out the perfect solution, with no solid answers.

Rob
 

jyamona

Captain
Platinum Vendor
Nov 7, 2016
1,056
Philly
Crazy, I remember talking with Steve at Fuel-It (before he became Fuel-It) about adapting in that Porsche HPFP setup. He seemed pretty hot and heavy on it, so I'd be willing to bet there was some snag keeping it from becoming a reality. Ultimately would be very nice to just have some very capable HPFP, off the shelf with no extra wear item like do hickeys, to just slap on and call it a day.

Rob
The snag being there is no way in hell he was going to get the DME to cooperate on his own ;)
 

Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
575
Chicago
I'm unconvinced that's the ultimate barrier. For some there is value to running one fueling system, not two. If that was not the case, I'd have a BMP on the shelf right now. I have others asking about when DI solutions are showing up as they prefer not to run both PI and DI.

Filippo
I agree it's not the ultimate barrier, but it is still certainly an expensive endeavor to get PI up and running properly - especially since most tuners will charge extra when going from a standard tune to adding Pi since so much more needs to be changed.

I could have easily afforded PI and thought I'd be stuck going that route after Tony told me the shotgun wouldnt work with my setup. I want to keep the DME in control of as much stuff as possible, and wanted to stay DI only as that's the way the engine was designed and I'd rather not hit any snags with third party hardware or tuning on a device that isnt native to the car yet needs to be very accurate and all extra connections airtight in order to be safe. Not to mention I'm not impressed by the PI plates so I'd be stuck either dropping money on a Chinese IM that provides no gains and heat soaks, or spend ~2x as much for a good IM than I would for the easy route to PI. I dont yet have the Helix on and running, but so far I'm very happy with the info on performance, cost etc. That's why I keep echoing my sentiment of wait for more official info or talk to Spool if you're seriously interested in staying DI only and could maybe see yourself using this product. No sense in adding a bunch more twigs to the bonfire of speculation at this point.
 
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Traf

Corporal
Aug 3, 2017
176
I'm sure without the VCV tables it would be very hard to control the porsche pump.
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
966
I'm unconvinced that's the ultimate barrier. For some there is value to running one fueling system, not two. If that was not the case, I'd have a BMP on the shelf right now. I have others asking about when DI solutions are showing up as they prefer not to run both PI and DI.

Filippo
I agree 100% DI only would be my preferred method as well. Let the DME do it's J O B. I would pay more not to ever have to deal with PI. Which in turn means a slightly less expensive aftermarket intake manifold and a simpler fuel system over all.
Yeah, you two are great examples of the 'typical' N54 owner and their $5K car 700+ whp #sendit plans :tonguewink:. If what you said were ultimately true, there wouldn't be success with MMP selling chickety-china injectors and poorly designed PI plates.

Unfortunately, PI is 'working' and because of it's early and affordable enough price, I think to get the masses to shift to DI only, the solution will have to cost the same or even a bit less.

I think @jyamona has stated that Flex Fuel hasn't sold as well as hoped - which is INSANE - it's FREAKING AMAZING. But hell, you got kids on FB that said they fill up their car with 93 while running an E60 map. :expressionless:
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,458
Virginia
Yeah, you two are great examples of the 'typical' N54 owner and their $5K car 700+ whp #sendit plans :tonguewink:.
lol ... I'll take that as a compliment.

Unfortunately, PI is 'working' and because of it's early and affordable enough price, I think to get the masses to shift to DI only, the solution will have to cost the same or even a bit less.
PI also keeps the intake tract and valves clean which is a big bonus.

I think @jyamona has stated that Flex Fuel hasn't sold as well as hoped - which is INSANE - it's FREAKING AMAZING. But hell, you got kids on FB that said they fill up their car with 93 while running an E60 map. :expressionless:
That is insane. And, that owners of Flex Fuel tend to espouse how great it is. That said, I would not be shy about harvesting N54 folks from FB that seem like a good forum fit ;)

Filippo
 

houtan

Corporal
Nov 2, 2017
145
I think @jyamona has stated that Flex Fuel hasn't sold as well as hoped - which is INSANE - it's FREAKING AMAZING. But hell, you got kids on FB that said they fill up their car with 93 while running an E60 map. :expressionless:
Maybe flex fuel hasn’t sold as well because it hasn’t made it to the e series n55 yet :) kind of kidding but kind of not.
 
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doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
7,763
AZ
That is insane. And, that owners of Flex Fuel tend to espouse how great it is. That said, I would not be shy about harvesting N54 folks from FB that seem like a good forum fit ;)
I still have not installed mine. I need to upgrade my fuel line first, and I need my new fuel system before I can do that.
 

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