Oil leak, turbo seal on the exhaust side?

[Boosted_135]

Oil leak issue. I googled it already.
BMW 135 n54
Last summer, no oil issues.
This winter, i did some maintenance
-New VCG
-New injectors
-New external PVC set up
-Oil filter housings gaskets changed last summer
Now, the turbos were removed and the wastegate bushing was replaced. The chra was removed from the exhaust and intake housings. Not much if any shaft play (in/out)
All new Orings and gaskets on the turbo lines/return lines.
Now, the fun part. I took it out for a day to make sure everything was good. I smelt oil being burnt from the vents in the car.
I took it to the garage, saw some oil on the downpipes. Removed the down pipes, saw oil on the Vband and oil drain.
-Removed the drain and put another new gasket.
--Upon removal, there seemed to be a decent amount of oil coming out of the drain when i removed it from the block. Oil backing up? too much oil in the motor?
I took it out for 2 days, same smell came back. Back to the garage, same spot i see oil.
No oil on the top of the turbo
No oil from the valve cover gasket.
My only other thought, was oil leaking through the rear turbo seal. (no oil in either intake or exhaust housings)
If the turbo exhaust housing wasnt pushed 100% flush to the chra, but the vband still closed, would this cause the issue?
Do i need a new rear chra? I don't want to upgrade the stock turbos.
Pictures to come,

 

[Boosted_135]

I just saw another thread on here about the clamp causing oil leakage?

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/bmw-has-issued-si-b11-15-16-for-leaking-turbo-band-clamp.2290/

 

[Dmak]

My front turbo had an identical sweat/leak like that. My turbos never been replaced and have 90000 km. checked for shaft play, none. Removed dp to check for oil at turbin wheel/housing, none. So i replaced the oil return line gasket. Havnt recheck yet, but i doubt it was the the oil line gasket. Its very possible the leak is from the chra band clamp.
My leak isnt bad yet. Let me know what you find.

 

[Boosted_135]

My front turbo had an identical sweat/leak like that. My turbos never been replaced and have 90000 km. checked for shaft play, none. Removed dp to check for oil at turbin wheel/housing, none. So i replaced the oil return line gasket. Havnt recheck yet, but i doubt it was the the oil line gasket. Its very possible the leak is from the chra band clamp.
My leak isnt bad yet. Let me know what you find.

This was recent? Having the back one leak isnt fun, it lands on the downpipe and burns off.

I just dont understand how the clamp can leak? Im going to hate to put it all back together, new gasket and it all leak.

There is a very small, i mean small, in/out play. But like you, my downpipe and housing is dry

 

[Dmak]

This was recent? Having the back one leak isnt fun, it lands on the downpipe and burns off.

I just dont understand how the clamp can leak? Im going to hate to put it all back together, new gasket and it all leak.

There is a very small, i mean small, in/out play. But like you, my downpipe and housing is dry

Happened some time last summer Then car was parked in winter and just took the car out few weeks ago. Yes the leak is small, can only smell it once in a while. only leak at front turbo for me which makes me believe its not related to crankcase pressure. I have no idea how can a turbo leak there. While i replace the turbo oil drain gasket, the oil drian line seems fine(no sign of any sludge build up). No idea whats the fix other than relacing the turbo. But just hope it doesnt leak bad and drag it out till i have the fund to get new turbos.

 

[Boosted_135]

 

[Boosted_135]

Happened some time last summer Then car was parked in winter and just took the car out few weeks ago. Yes the leak is small, can only smell it once in a while. only leak at front turbo for me which makes me believe its not related to crankcase pressure. I have no idea how can a turbo leak there. While i replace the turbo oil drain gasket, the oil drian line seems fine(no sign of any sludge build up). No idea whats the fix other than relacing the turbo. But just hope it doesnt leak bad and drag it out till i have the fund to get new turbos.

wi hate the fact of replacing the turbos. Living in Canada, an easy 600 dollar chra turns into 1200. everything is almost double by the time it gets here

 

[Dmak]

wi hate the fact of replacing the turbos. Living in Canada, an easy 600 dollar chra turns into 1200. everything is almost double by the time it gets here

It does look like its leaking out from chra, i just dont understand how it doesnt just out the exhaust but leak out from the clamp.
Which part of Canada are u at? There seems to be some good review from "turbo parts canada" if u look up facebook.

 

[Boosted_135]

It does look like its leaking out from chra, i just dont understand how it doesnt just out the exhaust but leak out from the clamp.
Which part of Canada are u at? There seems to be some good review from "turbo parts canada" if u look up facebook.

It does. Just odd it only started after the turbo was taken apart to fix the wastegate flapper.

East coast. I think i looked them up today and priced 1 chra. It was almost 650$ shipped to my door vs $600 for 2 RB oe chra rebuilts.

 

[Boosted_135]

is there a way to test crankcase pressure?

 

[NoQuarter]

is there a way to test crankcase pressure?

This seems like a good question for @Rob@RBTurbo ?

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Leaking turbos are not always due to worn bearing or excessive crankcase pressure. It can also be due to seals that lose tension and ductility, become brittle, or worse case (and least common) break altogether. Keep in mind the turbine shaft seals are piston ring (steel) material, they do fatigue in time/heat cycles/etc. A few weeks ago we'd tore down about 125 old used OEM CHRA's in preparation for refurbishments, and at least 100 of them had turbine seals that break when we'd try to separate them (at any amount) to remove them from the shaft. Most all of them are oil pushers to some degree and are very often extremely gummed up, so re-using them should be understood to be a very large risk unless you are absolute certain they are very close to new. Just some food for thought when it comes to reusing old used turbos that have been heat cycled for many years, especially with the current cost of DIY CHRA kits it is pure insanity to not just replace them if servicing the wastegates (or the like).

As for the crankcase pressure they make a oil fill cap that is already tapped or you can by a spare cap and tap it yourself for say 1/8" NPT. Ideally you have a magnehelic gauge or manometer to measure the pressures if you wanted to get any real accuracy, and monitor under whatever parameters you wish to test.

Alternative to this is to ensure your engine has a healthy compression and/or leak down; if so ensure the pcv system is healthy by doing the standard maintenance/upgrades, and the pressures should follow suit and be well in check.

Rob

 

[Boosted_135]

Thanks Rob! very useful information.

Im thinking about just replacing the turbo chra. I have no want to buy bigger turbos at this time. Id just hate to buy a turbo and it leak again because of other issues . Time is also a factor, waiting weeks for turbos is no fun as i dont usually have much patience waiting. haha Ive emailed you already about the DIY turbo chra kits you sell.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Thanks Rob! very useful information.

Im thinking about just replacing the turbo chra. I have no want to buy bigger turbos at this time. Id just hate to buy a turbo and it leak again because of other issues . Time is also a factor, waiting weeks for turbos is no fun as i dont usually have much patience waiting. haha Ive emailed you already about the DIY turbo chra kits you sell.

Get 'em while they are hot, we can't even see straight with how many we have been shipping out the past few months. All of our surplus OEM CHRA's will likely be exhausted by fall, at which point we will be adding a core charge to them. FWIW we still have not had one come back over 18 months and over 100 sets out there now, they are very well dialed in.

PS. Just saw your pic of that turbine wheel on your OEM's, it is definitely pushing oil and needs big time refurbishment. Also see you broke your alignment pin on the turbine housing so make sure you do a fine job aligning the "Pin" locations on both the cartridge and turbofold when reassembling- this will make sure your clocking is still good and the v-band will hold it in proper position.

Rob

 

[Boosted_135]

Get 'em while they are hot, we can't even see straight with how many we have been shipping out the past few months. All of our surplus OEM CHRA's will likely be exhausted by fall, at which point we will be adding a core charge to them. FWIW we still have not had one come back over 18 months and over 100 sets out there now, they are very well dialed in.

PS. Just saw your pic of that turbine wheel on your OEM's, it is definitely pushing oil and needs big time refurbishment. Also see you broke your alignment pin on the turbine housing so make sure you do a fine job aligning the "Pin" locations on both the cartridge and turbofold when reassembling- this will make sure your clocking is still good and the v-band will hold it in proper position.

Rob

alignment pin? i marked the exhaust housing to clamp to chra before it was removed, but curious on that aliggnment pin

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

alignment pin? i marked the exhaust housing to clamp to chra before it was removed, but curious on that aliggnment pin

If you look close at your turbo housing flange- there was a lil pin there (male) but it is broke off (this happens). Then look at the cartridge and there will be a little hole (female). Both together they align the components for proper clocking relationship, without them you will need to ensure you align them manually and carefully hold positioned as you tighten the v-band.

 

[Boosted_135]

Interesting, i never noticed it when it was removed. I'd only wish this would be a reason for the oil leak. haha Oddly it never leaked last year, until these changes.

 

[Boosted_135]

bringing this back from the dead.

installed new centre chras. new gaskets and o rings. (re used stock drains, but looked good)

both are leaking at the same spot now. By the drain/vband. No smoke out exhaust. no signs of burning oil (besides the leak). Motor sounds healthy. Rarely have i gone past 4500rpm since the leaks. 13psi max

the ONLY other change i have made since last summer , has to do with the pcv set up.

I ran an ADE fitting to 8an-> barb fitting to 92 Toyota supra TT pcv valve to "IN" mishimoto catch can to a "T" fitting in the vacuum line connected to the throttle body.

OEM flapper valve to BMS catchcan to rear turbo inlet.

The smell of burnt oil is starting to get to me.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

So the external PCV is more of a custom external setup (not a production offering)- may want to look deeper into that as if something is out of whack there it could certainly be a leading cause.

Also make sure the leak is not starting from up higher either and you are seeing only what gravity leaves behind.

Lastly may want to perform a compression or preferably a cylinder leakdown test as excess blowby certainly can cause otherwise good turbos with perfect seals/bearings/balance to push oil.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Boosted_135]

Not much of a custom set up, just one that doesn't cost me 450$ (canadian). It uses the same toyota PCV valve thats being sold in kits, same oil resistant lines, same catchcan and just not a fancy machine T fitting that connects to the Throttle body. Its collecting oil in it like it should.

Compression test came back spot on from the garage

Its leaking while i'm cruising around town in vacuum.

Ill check the feed line and go from there. Theres no oil near the boost solenoids. BMW definitely doesn't leave much room to look around.