RB external PCV setup

Mnst3r

Lurker
Nov 6, 2016
15
Honolulu
Not only dsc, abs, and brake lights are on as well. The trifecta. Its intermittent on one car but comes back on when the brakes are depressed. I'll gather all the codes from both cars later today as its 1am here now.
 

Jeffman

Lieutenant
Jan 7, 2017
926
I’m getting about the same amount of oil -150 miles or so of mixed local and highway driving, but less water than Matreyia
FDCDC9F6-EDAE-4929-BBEC-0F0863E20C18.jpeg
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
939
I’m getting about the same amount of oil -150 miles or so of mixed local and highway driving, but less water than Matreyia
View attachment 21510

I am not sure that is water. It smells like oil and gas. Also the can is next to the burger oil can not in a hot place - so that may have something to do with it not being pure oil.
 

supra2k6

Lurker
Feb 24, 2018
13
i get the same amount all oil. Mounted on the driver side tower about 1000-2000 miles of driving. MPG went up a bit as well all dark no water mix i could probably put it back in the engine that's how dark it is.
 
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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
939
i get the same amount all oil. Mounted on the driver side tower about 1000-2000 miles of driving. MPG went up a bit as well all dark no water mix i could probably put it back in the engine that's how dark it is.
I will try one more oil change to see if that does anything. So far...silky smooth.
 

Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
368
Yikes, @matreyia that's the most "coffee looking" blowby I've seen, especially after one tank of gas. Even @Jeffman I'm surprised you have that much getting caught in ~150 miles. I run an E60 blend and it's currently winter in Chicago, and while the car doesnt get driven if its below ~40°F and/or nasty out, every time I've emptied my can (probably every ~350 miles just out of paranoia) the oil is still nice and black and probably about the same amount as Jeffman has in his picture.

Albeit I'm running a customized externalized system, I dont know how much of a difference it would really make when my low side is essentially the RB setup but with a PCV valve in-line on the pre-OCC hose and a check valve post-OCC. I really only did that to guarantee theres no PCV valve leakage or pressurizing of my can and VC though, I dont see how it would necessarily help with less build up on my 130k motor. The check valve might help keep the CC oil from looking milky since the can is completely sealed under boost maybe.
 

The Convert

Lieutenant
Jun 4, 2017
885
Yikes, @matreyia that's the most "coffee looking" blowby I've seen, especially after one tank of gas. Even @Jeffman I'm surprised you have that much getting caught in ~150 miles. I run an E60 blend and it's currently winter in Chicago, and while the car doesnt get driven if its below ~40°F and/or nasty out, every time I've emptied my can (probably every ~350 miles just out of paranoia) the oil is still nice and black and probably about the same amount as Jeffman has in his picture.

Albeit I'm running a customized externalized system, I dont know how much of a difference it would really make when my low side is essentially the RB setup but with a PCV valve in-line on the pre-OCC hose and a check valve post-OCC. I really only did that to guarantee theres no PCV valve leakage or pressurizing of my can and VC though, I dont see how it would necessarily help with less build up on my 130k motor. The check valve might help keep the CC oil from looking milky since the can is completely sealed under boost maybe.
Doesn’t the RB kit not include a pcv valve and check valve? I don’t see how it wouldn’t pressurize the can and crank case under boost without them.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
939
Yikes, @matreyia that's the most "coffee looking" blowby I've seen, especially after one tank of gas. Even @Jeffman I'm surprised you have that much getting caught in ~150 miles. I run an E60 blend and it's currently winter in Chicago, and while the car doesnt get driven if its below ~40°F and/or nasty out, every time I've emptied my can (probably every ~350 miles just out of paranoia) the oil is still nice and black and probably about the same amount as Jeffman has in his picture.

Albeit I'm running a customized externalized system, I dont know how much of a difference it would really make when my low side is essentially the RB setup but with a PCV valve in-line on the pre-OCC hose and a check valve post-OCC. I really only did that to guarantee theres no PCV valve leakage or pressurizing of my can and VC though, I dont see how it would necessarily help with less build up on my 130k motor. The check valve might help keep the CC oil from looking milky since the can is completely sealed under boost maybe.
I will be curious to check my intake ports after a year.
 

Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
368
Doesn’t the RB kit not include a pcv valve and check valve? I don’t see how it wouldn’t pressurize the can and crank case under boost without them.
Well, kinda. The RB kit is basically just a PCV delete-style fitting that has a hole for the Toyota valve rather than an AN fitting, but does come with the valve pre-installed. The "full kit" option includes the aforementioned fitting and valve + ~4-6ft of braided nylon hose (-6AN size I believe although there isn't any AN fittings involved in the OTS setup), some hose clamps, the TB adapter and of course the head plugs.

I won't go into too much detail on why I pretty heavily changed the setup because some people think that means I'm a troll and hater somehow plus I've mentioned my thoughts before, but personally I definitely think theres room for improvement with the OTS RB kit for people more serious about having a complete and bullet proof setup. Having a high flowing check valve (i.e. PTFE ball style and not spring assisted, that way your PCV valve has basically full control over the vacuum while still stopping any pressurization or leakage) between the can and TB at the very least is a must imo. I know a lot of other people have started to run a similar if not identical setup to mine, although I also increased hose size.

For someone looking for an easy plug and play solution that maintains factory-like functionality (which seems to be the main goal of many RB products) I think the kit is good enough and certainly better than staying with the internalized setup. I just wanted a little extra after doing some more research on my own.
 
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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
939
I will be curious to check my intake ports after a year.
Kinda think of it... the day of install of the RB kit after plugging ports, I had my 5 and 6 injector wires switched and tried to trouble shoot the misfires for a whole day... running the engine for a few minutes at a time to see if the misfires would go away...which it never did until I found the switched wires. It could be that the misfires and running the engine for 20 minutes total might have contributed to the fuel inside the external can. I will check again after another tank of gas. Both cylinders 5 and 6 were wet with fuel so maybe there was some also sucked into the can that collected there. It did smell like fuel and oil heavily.
 

fmorelli

Major
Aug 11, 2017
1,816
Virginia
For someone looking for an easy plug and play solution that maintains factory-like functionality (which seems to be the main goal of many RB products) I think the kit is good enough and certainly better than staying with the internalized setup. I just wanted a little extra after doing some more research on my own.
I bought the RB external setup and then completely changed up how I plumbed it. I agree ... it looks good and with what I've seen of Rob's products, will work well for most people. I'll probably have the car back together by next week (before we do the end of February turbo tear down) and I'll post an external low-side PCV DIY with the setup I did, using RB's toyota valve setup.

Filippo
 
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[email protected]

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Dec 7, 2016
493
Doesn’t the RB kit not include a pcv valve and check valve? I don’t see how it wouldn’t pressurize the can and crank case under boost without them.
It does include a PCV valve- which is both a variable vacuum valve (ie. flow varies under varying vacuum) and check valve (100% closed under pressure). You do not need yet another check valve as long as you have a functioning PCV valve, and while it is true you're OCC will see pressure/vacuum it is expected that the OCC is a high quality sealed unit which is expected to be ok under those levels of say -30inHg (or less) through 30psi (or more). The OCC will not see any flow under pressure as the valve behind it closes (and leaks nothing), and thus the only time the OCC will see flow is when under vacuum (flow as regulated by the PCV).

I did speak with Filippo's friend Barry for a bit about this. He was wondering about the harm of putting another check valve right off the manifold. It sounded like he wanted both check valve redundancy and also to cut off all pressure asap without ever touching the OCC. My thought is that I do not see the harm in doing this, nor do I see the gain... but to each their own. As long as the check valve does not malfunction and as long as the PCV is also retained to manage the vacuum flow levels through the crankcase all should be well. Additionally as the low load PCV flow volume is very low (in the grand scheme of things) bigger lines (ie. 8+AN) are not needed, even -4AN would be well sufficient regardless of power levels. Remember the low load has to do with just that, low engine loads... not 7,500rpm 35psi 800whp banzai runs (that would be high load).

Regarding color of caught oil there is no doubt fuel/condensation/etc/etc will change this around for some. Location of the OCC, length of commutes, humidity, ambients, etc etc- can all lead to varying color/consistencies into what is caught. Those in the snowbelt may also want to reconsider remotely installing any additional check valves, as this condensation can cause them to freeze into a position (which is a big reason why PCV valves are mounted on engines, or if mounted remotely are heated electrically).

Lastly and as always- this is not a silver bullet to keeping valves clean forever however it is only one more step that can be taken. Guys running around with smoking turbos, for example pushing oil through the seals, are going to find this is going to do absolutely nothing from keeping that from happening which too will still push oil vapors directly through the IC and into the intake valves.

Rob
 
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The Convert

Lieutenant
Jun 4, 2017
885
Good note on the valve location for cold weather. I was wondering why the single valve isn’t just between the can and the manifold, but that took care of that. I wonder if the stock heater element could be used for such a task.
 
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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
939
It does include a PCV valve- which is both a variable vacuum valve (ie. flow varies under varying vacuum) and check valve (100% closed under pressure). You do not need yet another check valve as long as you have a functioning PCV valve, and while it is true you're OCC will see pressure/vacuum it is expected that the OCC is a high quality sealed unit which is expected to be ok under those levels of say -30inHg (or less) through 30psi (or more). The OCC will not see any flow under pressure as the valve behind it closes (and leaks nothing), and thus the only time the OCC will see flow is when under vacuum (flow as regulated by the PCV).

I did speak with Filippo's friend Barry for a bit about this. He was wondering about the harm of putting another check valve right off the manifold. It sounded like he wanted both check valve redundancy and also to cut off all pressure asap without ever touching the OCC. My thought is that I do not see the harm in doing this, nor do I see the gain... but to each their own. As long as the check valve does not malfunction and as long as the PCV is also retained to manage the vacuum flow levels through the crankcase all should be well. Additionally as the low load PCV flow volume is very low (in the grand scheme of things) bigger lines (ie. 8+AN) are not needed, even -4AN would be well sufficient regardless of power levels. Remember the low load has to do with just that, low engine loads... not 7,500rpm 35psi 800whp banzai runs (that would be high load).

Regarding color of caught oil there is no doubt fuel/condensation/etc/etc will change this around for some. Location of the OCC, length of commutes, humidity, ambients, etc etc- can all lead to varying color/consistencies into what is caught. Those in the snowbelt may also want to reconsider remotely installing any additional check valves, as this condensation can cause them to freeze into a position (which is a big reason why PCV valves are mounted on engines, or if mounted remotely are heated electrically).

Lastly and as always- this is not a silver bullet to keeping valves clean forever however it is only one more step that can be taken. Guys running around with smoking turbos, for example pushing oil through the seals, are going to find this is going to do absolutely nothing from keeping that from happening which too will still push oil vapors directly through the IC and into the intake valves.

Rob
I live in humid rainy Houston, TX... you might as well be breathing water here. No wonder the OCC is brownish. Just checked my high side BMS can... not a drop of oil in there. Only the RB Can setup has oil.
 
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The Convert

Lieutenant
Jun 4, 2017
885
I live in humid rainy Houston, TX... you might as well be breathing water here. No wonder the OCC is brownish. Just checked my high side BMS can... not a drop of oil in there. Only the RB Can setup has oil.
I’ve seen tons of occ pics and people in humid climates or that take short drives always have moisture in the can causing that coloring. It’s from the water vapor in the crankcase not fully boiling off.
 
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Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
368
I bought the RB external setup and then completely changed up how I plumbed it. I agree ... it looks good and with what I've seen of Rob's products, will work well for most people. I'll probably have the car back together by next week (before we do the end of February turbo tear down) and I'll post an external low-side PCV DIY with the setup I did, using RB's toyota valve setup.

Filippo
Awesome, I'm definitely interested in seeing the route you took. From what I snuck peeks at in photos of your engine bay I think we're probably running a pretty similar setup, but considering how the N54s PCV system is and how many different setups I've tried I'm more than happy to see others' ideas.

I've also debated using a Mighty Mouse sealable breather catch can setup in some form instead of the Mishi can, but I dont know if having a sealing breather on the can would be particularly more beneficial than blocking the can from pressurization with the check valve - I think if I end up dropping that much money on a catch can I'd likely plumb both sides into the same can for ease and cleanliness while still maintaining a functioning high and low side.
 

fmorelli

Major
Aug 11, 2017
1,816
Virginia
Awesome, I'm definitely interested in seeing the route you took. From what I snuck peeks at in photos of your engine bay I think we're probably running a pretty similar setup, but considering how the N54s PCV system is and how many different setups I've tried I'm more than happy to see others' ideas.

I've also debated using a Mighty Mouse sealable breather catch can setup in some form instead of the Mishi can, but I dont know if having a sealing breather on the can would be particularly more beneficial than blocking the can from pressurization with the check valve - I think if I end up dropping that much money on a catch can I'd likely plumb both sides into the same can for ease and cleanliness while still maintaining a functioning high and low side.
RB's kit is nice because one can configure it up a few different ways - convenient with the adapter for the intake return, or for those that wish to drill the manifold, can be ordered without that. The option to plug the PCV returns on the intake runners as well (though I can't imagine why one would do this and not plug the runners ... but it's a choice as well). Also the lack of a catch can allows one to choose that approach. RB recommends the Mishimoto with 50 micron filter - kind of hard to go wrong with that. There are other choices one can make though.

I'll have mine finished mid next week. I won't have any significant mileage on the car until late spring, so my write-up will just show how it was done and why ... but nothing more (yet) on how it has worked out. Nice part is that we blasted the intake before conversion, so by summer I hope to pull the intake and have some intake runner photos as well just so we can see how much soiling is going on.

Filippo
 

Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
368
RB's kit is nice because one can configure it up a few different ways - convenient with the adapter for the intake return, or for those that wish to drill the manifold, can be ordered without that. The option to plug the PCV returns on the intake runners as well (though I can't imagine why one would do this and not plug the runners ... but it's a choice as well). Also the lack of a catch can allows one to choose that approach. RB recommends the Mishimoto with 50 micron filter - kind of hard to go wrong with that. There are other choices one can make though.

I'll have mine finished mid next week. I won't have any significant mileage on the car until late spring, so my write-up will just show how it was done and why ... but nothing more (yet) on how it has worked out. Nice part is that we blasted the intake before conversion, so by summer I hope to pull the intake and have some intake runner photos as well just so we can see how much soiling is going on.

Filippo
Yep, I agree it is definitely pretty versatile and like I said probably the easiest OTS setup for your average user - I can see how my post might've sounded like I disagreed but I was more getting that I just wanted to go the extra mile with my setup, but I'll also admit I'm pretty anal about certain things and my PCV system is one of them lol.

I agree about not being able to go wrong with the Mishi CC too and am very happy with mine. The only reason I mentioned the MMS can is because I think it'd be pretty damn versatile and I'd be able to try multiple different setups just by moving around a check valve.

I also like the idea of the VS setup for the most part but would like to keep the low side under vac I think, and I dont believe that's an option with that setup. I think Omar's setup is VTA only for low side while having appropriate amounts of vacuum on the high side due to how it connects to the head - but I've never seen much info on how/where it connects or an installation guide so I'm not really certain. I like the idea of using the head rather than the intake mani and would be super interested in that kind of setup using both sides under vacuum with a sealable breather on the can just to make sure theres never any positive pressure which I think the only (easy) option there would be the MMS can realistically. I'm very tempted to order one and go with a hybrid setup of the VS and RB/VTT style setup I have now as I think it'd offer the best all around for me personally.
 

Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
830
Boston
Speaking of the PCV system I would still like to know of a good vac source as I have none now that I am single turbo. My previous source was the rear inlet pipe. I don't think a line from the ST filter all the way back is going to pull any vacuum worth talking about...
 
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