RB external PCV setup

The Convert

Lieutenant
Jun 4, 2017
885
Speaking of the PCV system I would still like to know of a good vac source as I have none now that I am single turbo. My previous source was the rear inlet pipe. I don't think a line from the ST filter all the way back is going to pull any vacuum worth talking about...
I’ve run that line on both an fftec bottom mount and my current motiv kit via a catch can and the catch can is still as dry as the day I installed it. I’m running a -20 hose too to prevent restriction.

I would also like to know if anyone has managed to set up a good vacuum pump and vacuum break on the N54 or other vehicles.
 
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veer90

700HP Club (N54)
Nov 16, 2016
785
West Nyack, NY
Speaking of the PCV system I would still like to know of a good vac source as I have none now that I am single turbo. My previous source was the rear inlet pipe. I don't think a line from the ST filter all the way back is going to pull any vacuum worth talking about...
Have you put your hand in front of the turbo when free revving the engine? I did that on my buddy's car with a GTX3076R and turbo guard on an M52B28.

Even when free revving the turbo wanted to eat my fingers. Lol

Plenty of vacuum as long as you use -10AN or 3/4" hose
 
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Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
368
I’ve run that line on both an fftec bottom mount and my current motiv kit via a catch can and the catch can is still as dry as the day I installed it. I’m running a -20 hose too to prevent restriction.

I would also like to know if anyone has managed to set up a good vacuum pump and vacuum break on the N54 or other vehicles.
I'm assuming you guys are talking high side only right? But I'm not 100% certain on ST builds how the low side works out.

I know a lot of people use a plug in VS style on the head, I've also seen a few people tap the VC right in front of the oil cap too though if you're DIY handy.

As for the vacuum pump setup, I've never seen pictures but ive seen two different people on FB claim they were using electric vacuum pumps. One person said they were running some OE ford or Chevy diesel pump, and the other said they used one off of Amazon. Personally I kind of doubt either of those two options would be ideal from the research I've done but who knows. If it was me I'd stick to using the head or just VTA rather than risk having a subpar vacuum pump setup that could do more harm than good, but I'm also interested in seeing a *good* vacuum pump setup just out of curiosity.
 
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Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
830
Boston
I'm assuming you guys are talking high side only right? But I'm not 100% certain on ST builds how the low side works out.

I know a lot of people use a plug in VS style on the head, I've also seen a few people tap the VC right in front of the oil cap too though if you're DIY handy.
Thanks for all the replies guys!

So that front head plug will pull vacuum under load eh? It's like 2 feet shorter than hacking up my ST filter and would look cleaner...I wonder which would pull more vacuum after you account for the longer 2'' hose going to the ST filter. I have the fittings I need to use the front head bung solution so I think I will start with that. Just need to find a hose I guess.
 

The Convert

Lieutenant
Jun 4, 2017
885
Thanks for all the replies guys!

So that front head plug will pull vacuum under load eh? It's like 2 feet shorter than hacking up my ST filter and would look cleaner...I wonder which would pull more vacuum after you account for the longer 2'' hose going to the ST filter. I have the fittings I need to use the front head bung solution so I think I will start with that. Just need to find a hose I guess.
What is this front head bung? I’m totally lost wit the solution your contemplating.
 

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Sergeant
Free Vendor
Dec 7, 2016
493
Speaking of the PCV system I would still like to know of a good vac source as I have none now that I am single turbo. My previous source was the rear inlet pipe. I don't think a line from the ST filter all the way back is going to pull any vacuum worth talking about...
Get this type of email/call with the same question about 1-2x a month from ST guys. My answer is that I've seen a few ST guys make an aluminum inlet which is basically a big tube they run all the way to the "cold" side of the engine. The pics I've seen actually look damn good, honestly, and they have the ability to run whatever filter they wish thereafter. If I were to do a Top Mount ST setup that is what I'd do- and then plumb in the high side to that inlet with the shortest possible run as possible (ie. around 7/8" ID is good) combined with the RB External PCV (or even Internal PCV if still equipped).
 
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MRC-5.56

Lurker
Nov 24, 2017
13
Yep, I agree it is definitely pretty versatile and like I said probably the easiest OTS setup for your average user - I can see how my post might've sounded like I disagreed but I was more getting that I just wanted to go the extra mile with my setup, but I'll also admit I'm pretty anal about certain things and my PCV system is one of them lol.

I agree about not being able to go wrong with the Mishi CC too and am very happy with mine. The only reason I mentioned the MMS can is because I think it'd be pretty damn versatile and I'd be able to try multiple different setups just by moving around a check valve.

I also like the idea of the VS setup for the most part but would like to keep the low side under vac I think, and I dont believe that's an option with that setup. I think Omar's setup is VTA only for low side while having appropriate amounts of vacuum on the high side due to how it connects to the head - but I've never seen much info on how/where it connects or an installation guide so I'm not really certain. I like the idea of using the head rather than the intake mani and would be super interested in that kind of setup using both sides under vacuum with a sealable breather on the can just to make sure theres never any positive pressure which I think the only (easy) option there would be the MMS can realistically. I'm very tempted to order one and go with a hybrid setup of the VS and RB/VTT style setup I have now as I think it'd offer the best all around for me personally.
I am kinda running both catch cans you mentioned in your post. I originally had the VS kit but i could not stand the smell the car was having with that system alone. My interior reeked of oil fumes etc.. After doing research on this forum I figured it would be best to reintroduce vacuum to the low PCV side for off boost driving. I installed the RB kit like normal but I modified the VS kit to vent and catch under boost situations. I added a brand new flapper valve for the rear high side so there is the proper amount of vacuum as that piece is important. For the front line that comes off the head I added a -10AN one way valve that opens at like 1psi and that goes to the VS breather as well. I've been running this setup now since late September and all seems well. The low side catch can catches a lot more than the high side.
 

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Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
830
Boston
What is this front head bung? I’m totally lost wit the solution your contemplating.
vader solutions n54 pcv kit uses the front bung on the head as a vacuum source apparently. I wonder if it draws more than my ST top mount filter would with the long hose. I believe I only need a small amount of vacuum to help so perhaps it does not matter which way I go?

<---5m 30s into the video he shows it.



Get this type of email/call with the same question about 1-2x a month from ST guys. My answer is that I've seen a few ST guys make an aluminum inlet which is basically a big tube they run all the way to the "cold" side of the engine. The pics I've seen actually look damn good, honestly, and they have the ability to run whatever filter they wish thereafter. If I were to do a Top Mount ST setup that is what I'd do- and then plumb in the high side to that inlet with the shortest possible run as possible (ie. around 7/8" ID is good) combined with the RB External PCV (or even Internal PCV if still equipped).
Do you have a picture? I'm missing what you are describing. Or do you mean filter to aluminum inlet 'box' which then goes to the turbo with a coupler and a bung/hose for the vacuum line in the aluminum inlet box? Like making an intake manifold for the turbo?
 

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Sergeant
Free Vendor
Dec 7, 2016
493
vader solutions n54 pcv kit uses the front bung on the head as a vacuum source apparently. I wonder if it draws more than my ST top mount filter would with the long hose. I believe I only need a small amount of vacuum to help so perhaps it does not matter which way I go?

<---5m 30s into the video he shows it.
Ummm. This plug is just a random plug that exposes the timing chain area when removed. Not sure how this is dub'd as a vacuum source... perhaps I am missing something here?

Do you have a picture? I'm missing what you are describing. Or do you mean filter to aluminum inlet 'box' which then goes to the turbo with a coupler and a bung/hose for the vacuum line in the aluminum inlet box? Like making an intake manifold for the turbo?
No picture- not real good at saving these things as they are not typically applicable to RB (ie. we do not sell ST kits). But basically remove your stubby filter, then make an aluminum pipe (buy in as needed bends and cut and weld as needed) that routes in between the core support and engine and couple it to the turbo, then route all the way to the cold side of the engine and toss a as desired sized filter on it when you get there. Back to the PCV high side discussion then take that inlet (when completed) and add a port for the high side PCV to make that connection (wherever it makes the best sense) as well.

Rob
 
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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
939
Yikes, @matreyia that's the most "coffee looking" blowby I've seen, especially after one tank of gas. Even @Jeffman I'm surprised you have that much getting caught in ~150 miles. I run an E60 blend and it's currently winter in Chicago, and while the car doesnt get driven if its below ~40°F and/or nasty out, every time I've emptied my can (probably every ~350 miles just out of paranoia) the oil is still nice and black and probably about the same amount as Jeffman has in his picture.

Albeit I'm running a customized externalized system, I dont know how much of a difference it would really make when my low side is essentially the RB setup but with a PCV valve in-line on the pre-OCC hose and a check valve post-OCC. I really only did that to guarantee theres no PCV valve leakage or pressurizing of my can and VC though, I dont see how it would necessarily help with less build up on my 130k motor. The check valve might help keep the CC oil from looking milky since the can is completely sealed under boost maybe.

After doing research, it appears that the brownish fuel/oil juices in humid winter months are completely normal. A lot of worry about nothing. I remember summer months yielding black oil in the catch can and winter being more brown...
 

Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
830
Boston
Ummm. This plug is just a random plug that exposes the timing chain area when removed. Not sure how this is dub'd as a vacuum source... perhaps I am missing something here?



No picture- not real good at saving these things as they are not typically applicable to RB (ie. we do not sell ST kits). But basically remove your stubby filter, then make an aluminum pipe (buy in as needed bends and cut and weld as needed) that routes in between the core support and engine and couple it to the turbo, then route all the way to the cold side of the engine and toss a as desired sized filter on it when you get there. Back to the PCV high side discussion then take that inlet (when completed) and add a port for the high side PCV to make that connection (wherever it makes the best sense) as well.

Rob
Ok now I get what you mean. I have seen that too. Probably not a horrible idea other than it looking a bit funky but I really don't care about that.


As far as the bung in the head as a vacuum source? I just know that is where the bung/fitting on the kit goes. No idea if there is actually vacuum there...I don't see why there would be but I am no expert. If anything if it's in the head could it see boost if the head plugs are not plugged? At some part of his video he describes how a fitting will block all of those 6 head ports iirc?
 
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JimboFresh206

Corporal
Jan 29, 2018
120
I ran my OCC to a similar port on my M50NV and it was not under vacuum. I dont see why the n54 would be any different.

Pretty sure its just Venting/relieving CC pressure.

Has anyone tried a Pan-Evac and got it to work? worked great on my m54.... I know ive seen posts about someone trying it and having ehh results, but that could have been caused by placement etc.

Bf.C thread on the subject:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2192632-exhaust-CCV-bung-location-where-is-best

V8 placment near collector:
evacsysteminstallsy2.jpg

Really cheap pan evac fitting:
https://thmotorsports.com/546640-vibrant-vacuum-scavenger?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoePVvIXk3wIVxRx9Ch0FLg52EAYYASABEgLlxPD_BwE


In regards to using OEM smog pumps as Vaccum pumps, i have done this as well with GM & SVT cobra pumps, and they arent designed to really live in an oily environment. Every time ive tried that and everyone ive seen do it has the pump fail in the long run.


On a side note, this is just arm chairing here but. Given that the WG tube on the speedtech kit for example is a smaller DIA than the DP, maybe placing the Pan evac here would be beneficial? The common train of thought is that smaller diameter, and near a bend is your best bet with them.
N54_kit+copy.jpg


and a pan evac setup on a 2j because why not :)
ak7vie.jpg
 
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[email protected]

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Dec 7, 2016
493
Ok now I get what you mean. I have seen that too. Probably not a horrible idea other than it looking a bit funky but I really don't care about that.
I actually thought it looked great. Allows for a full size filter, one that can pick up from the cooler side of the engine to boot. Seems like a win/win/win as is, then an additional win as you now have an inlet to connect the PCV high side to as well.

As far as the bung in the head as a vacuum source? I just know that is where the bung/fitting on the kit goes. No idea if there is actually vacuum there...I don't see why there would be but I am no expert. If anything if it's in the head could it see boost if the head plugs are not plugged? At some part of his video he describes how a fitting will block all of those 6 head ports iirc?
To the best of my knowledge all that plug will provide by connecting to it is some "windage" from the timing chain flailing past it as the engine runs. Or in short, good for nothing...

Rob
 
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Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
830
Boston
No picture- not real good at saving these things as they are not typically applicable to RB (ie. we do not sell ST kits). But basically remove your stubby filter, then make an aluminum pipe (buy in as needed bends and cut and weld as needed) that routes in between the core support and engine and couple it to the turbo, then route all the way to the cold side of the engine and toss a as desired sized filter on it when you get there. Back to the PCV high side discussion then take that inlet (when completed) and add a port for the high side PCV to make that connection (wherever it makes the best sense) as well.

Rob
attachment.jpg



It will look different as the doc race and VM single turbos site farther forward. Thanks for the idea Rob. Why have I never thought of this before?

Just need a small tube off it right behind the filter for my PCV vacuum source. I would probably run a filter double the size in the pic because, why not. One of those longer K&N ones. I will probably make a bracket as I don't like the idea of that filter/pipe just hanging and bouncing around on my meth lines etc.

I wonder if I could fit 4'' pipe to match the compressor's inlet.
 

veer90

700HP Club (N54)
Nov 16, 2016
785
West Nyack, NY
View attachment 21616


It will look different as the doc race and VM single turbos site farther forward. Thanks for the idea Rob. Why have I never thought of this before?

Just need a small tube off it right behind the filter for my PCV vacuum source. I would probably run a filter double the size in the pic because, why not. One of those longer K&N ones. I will probably make a bracket as I don't like the idea of that filter/pipe just hanging and bouncing around on my meth lines etc.

I wonder if I could fit 4'' pipe to match the compressor's inlet.
windshield washer filler neck hanging on for dear life lol
 
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Panzerfaust

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2018
368
Thanks for all the replies guys!

So that front head plug will pull vacuum under load eh? It's like 2 feet shorter than hacking up my ST filter and would look cleaner...I wonder which would pull more vacuum after you account for the longer 2'' hose going to the ST filter. I have the fittings I need to use the front head bung solution so I think I will start with that. Just need to find a hose I guess.
I actually have no idea to what extent, if at all, it would pull vacuum under load. Like The Convert I wasnt even 100% sure where the plug was, but I have seen several people using it both for the VS setup and their own DIYs. If other people have proof it pulls vacuum I'd be interested in seeing it, but considering what @[email protected] said I'm inclined to believe him that it might just be venting fumes? Maybe @[email protected] can chime in here for us?
I am kinda running both catch cans you mentioned in your post. I originally had the VS kit but i could not stand the smell the car was having with that system alone. My interior reeked of oil fumes etc.. After doing research on this forum I figured it would be best to reintroduce vacuum to the low PCV side for off boost driving. I installed the RB kit like normal but I modified the VS kit to vent and catch under boost situations. I added a brand new flapper valve for the rear high side so there is the proper amount of vacuum as that piece is important. For the front line that comes off the head I added a -10AN one way valve that opens at like 1psi and that goes to the VS breather as well. I've been running this setup now since late September and all seems well. The low side catch can catches a lot more than the high side.
Very interesting, thanks for the post! I was told the VS setup *couldnt* be run with the PCV side under vacuum but wasnt given a reason as to why, so it's good to know my initial assumptions were correct. Personally I wouldn't mind the VTA smells if VTA is the best deemed route for boost (which I still think it might be unless using a proper pump setup) but I am interested in trying a similar setup out when I can.
Ok now I get what you mean. I have seen that too. Probably not a horrible idea other than it looking a bit funky but I really don't care about that.


As far as the bung in the head as a vacuum source? I just know that is where the bung/fitting on the kit goes. No idea if there is actually vacuum there...I don't see why there would be but I am no expert. If anything if it's in the head could it see boost if the head plugs are not plugged? At some part of his video he describes how a fitting will block all of those 6 head ports iirc?
I think the blocking of the ports is referring to the PCV delete plug used most likely, but with the breather on the can you shouldn't have to worry about seeing boost anyway - and I'd imagine Omar includes a check valve too.

Regarding the person who mentioned the turbo pulling vacuum when sticking your hand in front of it, I'm sure that's absolutely true that it felt like it would suck your fingers in - but the issue with the high side is finding enough vacuum that it's stronger than the boost being produced, which is why a VTA setup is probably just as, if not more useful then most setups for that side.
 
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