Single Turbo peeps... NTK or ADV O2 sensors?

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veer90

Lieutenant
Nov 16, 2016
929
West Nyack, NY
Old bosch sensors with 80k miles on them got cooked in one night of tuning pulls LOL

Please chime in with your experience with either sensor and where to get them, any tune changes required, etc etc. Thanks!
 

blisstik

Corporal
Mar 27, 2018
150
ADV - Chris @ Motiv can integrate the calibration in your map. It's more advanced than the MHD tick box.
 

bahn

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
110
Davenport, IA
Sounds like the O2 placement is too close to the head. Ideally you want then to run around 750c. What's your lambda target and what fuel are you running? You can try richening the mixture to reduce exhaust temperature.
 
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DCook

Corporal
May 25, 2018
172
Another question is, are the adv sensors, kit dependent? Like wont work with a certain brand due to placement on manifold? I heard that. Would like to know if thats the case with docrace manifolds as well for them. Id look into that also.
 

bahn

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
110
Davenport, IA
Another question is, are the adv sensors, kit dependent? Like wont work with a certain brand due to placement on manifold? I heard that. Would like to know if thats the case with docrace manifolds as well for them. Id look into that also.
Regular LSU 4.9 recommended operating range is below 930c. ADV LSU 4.9 is below 980c for the pre-turbo version. No need to alter placement just because you're switching to the ADV, unless of course you're burning through O2s, then the exhaust temperature is too hot and it needs moved back.
 

dyezak

Major
May 4, 2017
1,768
Plano TX
Sounds like the O2 placement is too close to the head. Ideally you want then to run around 750c. What's your lambda target and what fuel are you running? You can try richening the mixture to reduce exhaust temperature.
Has nothing to do with heat...it is positive pressure environments blowing the internals apart. They were designed to be in a 0psi post turbo environment. Putting them pre-turbo in the manifold is the killer because of exhaust pressure. Bosch released a 7 page (yea, engineers are wordy) analysis of the issue and subsequently designed the ADV sensors to remedy the problem.
 
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bahn

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
110
Davenport, IA
Has nothing to do with heat...it is positive pressure environments blowing the internals apart. They were designed to be in a 0psi post turbo environment. Putting them pre-turbo in the manifold is the killer because of exhaust pressure. Bosch released a 7 page (yea, engineers are wordy) analysis of the issue and subsequently designed the ADV sensors to remedy the problem.
I'd like to see that analysis if you can find it. The single turbo kits move the O2 sensors to being pre-turbo instead of post-turbo, that is conducive to higher temperatures and higher temperature fluctuations. Often the temperature differential can be a couple hundred degrees between post and pre-turbo. Post-turbo exhaust temperatures are much more stable than pre-turbo, so pre-turbo can lead to thermal shock. I have a decent amount of experience with the LSU 4.9 but they're not recommended to be installed pre-turbo. Whether or not temperature or pressure is killing them quickly in single turbo setups I do not know. The upgraded twin guys don't seem to burn through them as quickly though so that leads me to believe temperature is the cause of failure
 
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The Convert

Captain
Jun 4, 2017
1,114
I'd like to see that analysis if you can find it. The single turbo kits move the O2 sensors to being pre-turbo instead of post-turbo, that is conducive to higher temperatures and higher temperature fluctuations. Often the temperature differential can be a couple hundred degrees between post and pre-turbo. Post-turbo exhaust temperatures are much more stable than pre-turbo, so pre-turbo can lead to thermal shock. I have a decent amount of experience with the LSU 4.9 but they're not recommended to be installed pre-turbo. Whether or not temperature or pressure is killing them quickly in single turbo setups I do not know. The upgraded twin guys don't seem to burn through them as quickly though so that leads me to believe temperature is the cause of failure
The ADV sensors were specifically designed to be placed pre turbo. Twin guys don't need to run the ADV sensors, and I haven't heard of anyone going through ADV sensors. They're basically a mandatory item when going single.
 

bahn

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
110
Davenport, IA
The ADV sensors were specifically designed to be placed pre turbo. Twin guys don't need to run the ADV sensors, and I haven't heard of anyone going through ADV sensors. They're basically a mandatory item when going single.
Agreed, however the pressure rating for both the regular LSU 4.9 and the ADV is the same <= 2.5 bar. So the claim that pressure is the cause of the failures really doesn't make sense to me, I believe the actual failure mode is thermal shock. Cheers
 

chadillac2000

Corporal
Oct 26, 2017
225
NC
Seems like I'll be playing devil's advocate here as all reviews seem to be positive, but the ADV sensors did not work from the jump on my IJE0S single turbo build -- and others have reported the same issues I was having. I spent 1,000 miles pulling out my hair after investing $7500 in single turbo parts trying to get these sensors to work. During off throttle conditions, my trims would get stuck in open loop fueling, and eventually cause a SES light and drivability issues until I cleared the code. I worked with Chris trying multiple tunes before I finally gave up and swapped in NTK sensors like Payam suggested.

The NTK sensors alone immediately solved all my issues now have close to 10,000 miles and 4 months on them with zero issues.

Not to say that the ADV sensors don't work, because the majority of people use them successfully, but there are multiple cases of them not working and causing trim control codes + open loop fueling.
 
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veer90

Lieutenant
Nov 16, 2016
929
West Nyack, NY
Seems like I'll be playing devil's advocate here as all reviews seem to be positive, but the ADV sensors did not work from the jump on my IJE0S single turbo build -- and others have reported the same issues I was having. I spent 1,000 miles pulling out my hair after investing $7500 in single turbo parts trying to get these sensors to work. During off throttle conditions, my trims would get stuck in open loop fueling, and eventually cause a SES light and drivability issues until I cleared the code. I worked with Chris trying multiple tunes before I finally gave up and swapped in NTK sensors like Payam suggested.

The NTK sensors alone immediately solved all my issues now have close to 10,000 miles and 4 months on them with zero issues.

Not to say that the ADV sensors don't work, because the majority of people use them successfully, but there are multiple cases of them not working and causing trim control codes + open loop fueling.
Any tune changes required for the NTKs? Also where did you get them

Any info is appreciated that's why I made the thread.
 

Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,312
Boston
ADVs have been working fine for me. That being said, I would probably order a set of NTKs as well in case you run into what chadillac2000 did. You can always return them if not needed. The ADVs are the most proven on this platform currently.
 

Milan

Corporal
Dec 24, 2016
193
jebi se
I've had two single turbo cars, both with ADVs and they don't last. I think the NTKs are much better sensors. Also I had the same issues as chadillac. Also tried working with Chris (who is great to deal with) to no avail.
 
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