E9X Talking about oil and Bimmers :)

Discussion in 'N55' started by 9krpmrx8, Dec 3, 2016.

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  1. Bnks334

    Bnks334 Specialist

  2. DirtKurt

    DirtKurt Private Vendor

    41
    NH
    Excellent video, everyone should watch it
     
  3. this is hard core knurd stuff. super lengthy and ultra informative. Too bad he didn't test Motul X-cess :(
     
  4. DirtKurt

    DirtKurt Private Vendor

    41
    NH
    Or any high end oils at all....
    I spent way to much time reading that blog many months ago, Personally I think he is full of shit. He claims no affiliations whatsoever yet spends an entire section on Prolong engine treatment and how its "The real deal"
     
  5. Bnks334

    Bnks334 Specialist

    I agree to some extent. His tests are very limited in scope and he seems pretty closed minded. He rants about how he's so perfect in his engineering. Kind of annoying when you consider he's literally only testing one property of the oil...

    His main driving point seems to be to dispel the myth that higher levels of zinc additive in oil, or more additives in general, make an oil "better." He tested all the wrong properties of the oil if that was the thesis, lol (he should've tested for anti-friction properties). His own findings are that zinc additives do nothing for shear properties and even degrade film-strength (uhh no shit?). However, calcium based additives did indeed increase shear protection, per his testing methodology.

    The industry is now moving towards titanium as the next big thing in oil additives so it's a moot point either way... Pennzoil ultra and Castrol edge now contain high levels of titanium and low levels of other additives. My latest blackstone oil report confirms this.

    So yeah, it looks like he is right in that oil manufacturers might've been doing more harm then good by jacking up additive contents in their oils to win advertising wars with numbers. My own personal theory is that a lot of oil manufacturers might've moved to cheaper base stocks and then tried to compensate by throwing more additives into the oil. Works fine for street cars, but performance cars rely on much more than the oils anti-friction properties...

    The data is VERY meaningful though. All oils pretty much do the same thing and provide the same amount of lubrication/anti-friction... oil is oil, basically. The issue of premature engine wear/failure in motorsports comes back to what was actually tested... When does the oil break down and begin to fail to provide lubrication? The only property of oil that really matters is: how well does it maintain a film between moving parts?

    The data proves certain oils perform significantly better at maintaining shear resistance and film strength under the kind of loads seen during performance driving. I want to run the oil that will maintain it's properties at temps up to and above 300f. This is especially important when running an N54/N55 that hits 300f oil on the regular at the track. A lot of the specialty synthetic oils performed WORSE than even conventional oils in this regard. The test data shows the top 10 oils maintain within 12% of their advertised weight at temps up to 325f whereas other oils fall off tremendously and are even beginning to break down as early as 260f...

    He did test a few expensive "race" and motorsports oils. They all came out sub-par compared to the name brand shelf oils like pennzoil ultra, mobile-1, and Castrol edge.

    Bottom line is the big brand name shelf products have massively more r&d in their oils than someone like royalpurple ever will and it shows... especially when you're charged with producing world class motorsports oils for people like nascar. That r&d trickles down to their shelf products.

    I'll stick to whatever name brand synthetic is on sale at the local auto part store. They all performed within the top 10 and beat out a lot of the more expensive specialty oils by a wide margin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  6. DirtKurt

    DirtKurt Private Vendor

    41
    NH

    Most of what you said is correct, Pretty much all of the brand name full synthetic oils are more than whats needed for 99% of cars on the road.
    He ignored pretty much all of the top quality oils. He tested the motul 300v ester core motorcycle oil which ended up almost at the top and the only high performance redline oil he tested was straight 30W from 2011. He completely failed to do high temp wear testing on either of these which is what they are designed for.
    All of the name brand oils he tested that fell into to the top spots experienced significant drops in protection when exposed to his high temp 275* test.
    Also every oil he tested started volatizing at 300* or less

    Bottom line if you want the best oil it needs to be a pao or ester core. I spend the extra money on it because I run my stock turbos a 26psi and they are seeing more extreme conditions than any part inside the motor. 1 full season of autocrossing, 1/4 mile passes and just general abuse and they are still perfect.
    If my car was just a mildy tuned DD then I would be running the mobil 1 0w40 or 5-30 that i use for everything else.

    https://www.motul.com/za/en/products/oils-lubricants/300v-power-5w40--2

    All of that being said his top 2 oils include prolong engine treatment which is a great way to destroy a motor.
     
  7. Bnks334

    Bnks334 Specialist

    Yeah the list definetly needs to be resorted after taking out the additive numbers. You're also right in that half the oils tested aren't even available anymore or relevant.

    Pao and ester oils? Based on the testing done, you can't possible determine they'll perform better without measuring their film strength and volatility using the same methods... the testing stresses the point that the base oil alone means jack squat in how well oil will protect your engine. Hence why rat came up with the film strength test to objectively rank the oils.

    The oil in your turbo is there for cooling. The oil is not seeing the high load it does while flowing through the moving parts of the engine. The engine is the area you want to select your oil to protect. That is where the psi ranking of film strength becomes so important. You want the oil that will maintain a proper wedge of oil between the moving parts.

    Pennzoil ultra platinum looks like one of the best all around shelf oils. The quaker state durability oil looks like it provides one of the best film strengths, and that's the oil rat uses. The theory being that thats the only property that really matters. All the major brand sythetic oils pretty much ranked at the 290f mark for volatility. Just because the oil is breaking down at that point doesnt mean it's no longer providing a film between moving parts, it just means you'll need to change your oil more frequenty if you run the oil above those temps constantly. This goes back to point above regarding the high turbo heat. Running an ester oil that doesn't break down unail 325f isn't going to do help much especially not if it had a low fill strength... The viscosity testing isn't all that relevant either, but again the pennzoil ultra platinum did by far the best by maintaining 97% at 325f. Just stay away from the oils that lose 30% viscosity as early as 260f lol.

    The general concept I got of race oils is that they still have high levels of additives that increase wear. Many of these oils also ranked low in regard to film strength. These oils are meant to be used on race cars that see frequent changes and engine rebuilds. They aren't meant for daily driven vehicles or even your average hpde car.

    What oils are you using or would recommend? Maybe you can get him to test them?
     

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