The Effect of Replacing O2 Sensors - Results

[The Convert]

By data you mean measurements from the computer? Exact rates etc...

So my analog eyeball seeing 3xx miles as opposed to 160 mile on a tank means nothing... again, ignore the post. It is useless you anyone who wants computer data.

You replaced multiple things. You don't know if it was the final combination that caused 100% or your gain in gas mileage, or if it was JUST the O2 sensors. If you had taken logs in the first place, you would know. If you had logged in the first place, you would have probably seen data that would have pointed you towards the O2 sensors.

 

[matreyia]

You replaced multiple things. You don't know if it was the final combination that caused 100% or your gain in gas mileage, or if it was JUST the O2 sensors. If you had taken logs in the first place, you would know. If you had logged in the first place, you would have probably seen data that would have pointed you towards the O2 sensors.

Of course it was the sensors.
All these parts before were replace as they needed to be accordong to the books. Just so happens the gas mileage got better only after the sensors were replaced. There is NOTHING else that needs replacing.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Guys... not to jump into this fun filled match, but if the guy replaced a bunch of parts and anecdotally didn't see any change in fuel mileage... then swapped out O2 sensors and saw a difference... it's not going to be published in engineering weekly's top 10 test examples but it's useful information. A log before and after isn't going to show much. If the O2 sensors were lazy/slow, the log wouldn't be accurate anyway -remember the tune targets what you tell it to. I'm sure the ECU thought it was dead on balls accurate (industry term). So it's of reduced value. I'd say the useful takeaway on this is that it's possible that O2 sensors can effect fuel mileage, so keep that idea on the back burner as a possibility if one is troubleshooting crappy mileage. FWIW this is not a unique find; common cause of lousy mileage IS old/worn/cranky O2 sensors. You don't need a fault tree and 1200 logs for that.

If your fuel trims before were real tight with your tune before, I bet now they're negative. Problem is it's hard to capture useful repeatable non-WOT data for conditions like this.

Chris

 

[matreyia]

Guys... not to jump into this fun filled match, but if the guy replaced a bunch of parts and anecdotally didn't see any change in fuel mileage... then swapped out O2 sensors and saw a difference... it's not going to be published in engineering weekly's top 10 test examples but it's useful information. A log before and after isn't going to show much. If the O2 sensors were lazy/slow, the log wouldn't be accurate anyway -remember the tune targets what you tell it to. I'm sure the ECU thought it was dead on balls accurate (industry term). So it's of reduced value. I'd say the useful takeaway on this is that it's possible that O2 sensors can effect fuel mileage, so keep that idea on the back burner as a possibility if one is troubleshooting crappy mileage. FWIW this is not a unique find; common cause of lousy mileage IS old/worn/cranky O2 sensors. You don't need a fault tree and 1200 logs for that.

If your fuel trims before were real tight with your tune before, I bet now they're negative. Problem is it's hard to capture useful repeatable non-WOT data for conditions like this.

Chris

Thank you for a simple common sense comment. I don't know where these privileged acting folks are coming from. They just automatically chime in with insane incredulity and act like they know everything about you, me, cars, every conceivable situation...I feel like I am taking crazy pills. If anyone searched my replies to people's posts...in the entire history of all my replies to every forum, not once do I go into a post and comment with incredulity or assumption that someone is automatically stupid or lying or whatever.

Then when I reflect their manners to them, they get super pissed. Then starts the down votes... But not one eyelid is moved when they acted rudely initially.

They act like this and then they complain about me being rude to them or being a "bag of dicks"... like people are just supposed to step aside and take whatever they do or say to them, then just reply with politeness no matter what... eh...welcome to life I suppose.

 

[The Convert]

Thank you for a simple common sense comment. I don't know where these privileged acting folks are coming from. They just automatically chime in with insane incredulity and act like they know everything about you, me, cars, every conceivable situation...I feel like I am taking crazy pills. If anyone searched my replies to people's posts...in the entire history of all my replies to every forum, not once do I go into a post and comment with incredulity or assumption that someone is automatically stupid or lying or whatever.

Then when I reflect their manners to them, they get super pissed. Then starts the down votes... But not one eyelid is moved when they acted rudely initially.

They act like this and then they complain about me being rude to them or being a "bag of dicks"... like people are just supposed to step aside and take whatever they do or say to them, then just reply with politeness no matter what... eh...welcome to life I suppose.

You must be a liberal millennial...always the victim and never want their views challenged.

 

[matreyia]

You must be a liberal millennial...always the victim and never want their views challenged.

What the fuck views is that? You are the one bringing up arguments where none exist and generalizing left and right dumbass.

 

[langsbr]

Rage much? It's amazing how you have so over reacted to a simple comment. I merely made a comment that it would be INTERESTING to see the before and after logs. I get that it isn't interesting to you. WE ALL GET that you don't log or like to approach things logically. Just look at this and the other thread. Oof.

Just as Chris said you may have some really off fuel trims now (not that you care to know or check...You gotz a toon bro and its faaaast boi!)

If the car ran fine before and fine after except for mileage, it would be interesting to see the effects. I never bashed you in my comment. You took it as much and made a smart ass comment.

It is well apparent that you have a thin ego which is why you resort to name calling and telling people to fuck off left and right.

I agree with Convert that you had to be a liberal millenial, but alas, the entitled ignorant mentality is growing. You'd think a 45 year old would have a bit more maturity, but we see that's not the case.

What's really funny is had this been an in person conversation, my initial thought would be that you would never act this way. You'd say you swapped your O2s and got better mileage, I'd say wow, do you have any logs, it would be interesting to see the before and after. You'd say, no, I didn't grab any direct comparisons, but I have some current ones.

In reality, I know your response would have been, "fuck off. I don't know what logging is or does, and I just did what needed to be done." And I would have said, "geez, no need to be a tool" and walked away, while you continued to yell and get all enraged. Sheesh.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

I think it's more just basic miscommunication than anything else, on both sides. Remember, written word is a lot more difficult to convey emotion/tone than in person.

 

[matreyia]

Rage much? It's amazing how you have so over reacted to a simple comment. I merely made a comment that it would be INTERESTING to see the before and after logs. I get that it isn't interesting to you. WE ALL GET that you don't log or like to approach things logically. Just look at this and the other thread. Oof.

Just as Chris said you may have some really off fuel trims now (not that you care to know or check...You gotz a toon bro and its faaaast boi!)

If the car ran fine before and fine after except for mileage, it would be interesting to see the effects. I never bashed you in my comment. You took it as much and made a smart ass comment.

It is well apparent that you have a thin ego which is why you resort to name calling and telling people to fuck off left and right.

I agree with Convert that you had to be a liberal millenial, but alas, the entitled ignorant mentality is growing. You'd think a 45 year old would have a bit more maturity, but we see that's not the case.

What's really funny is had this been an in person conversation, my initial thought would be that you would never act this way. You'd say you swapped your O2s and got better mileage, I'd say wow, do you have any logs, it would be interesting to see the before and after. You'd say, no, I didn't grab any direct comparisons, but I have some current ones.

In reality, I know your response would have been, "fuck off. I don't know what logging is or does, and I just did what needed to be done." And I would have said, "geez, no need to be a tool" and walked away, while you continued to yell and get all enraged. Sheesh.

"Reality" yeah...in reality.

All you fuckers do is come and post negative comments about how things are anecdotal or people are getting ripped off immediately from the start. And when I point your stupidity out you get all butt hurt and continue to try to tear people down with comments that have shit to do with the topic. So excuse me but fuck off.

You like to dish it out but you cry like babies when it is given back to you. This is the mirror... you don't like what you see? Then change yourself. People don't tell you to fuck off for no reason.

"I merely made a comment that it would be INTERESTING to see the before and after logs.."

You have selective memory. You stated it was anecdotal.... so i told you ignore the post... because it is useless to you. Then YOU started the name calling you sensitive hypocrite. "No need to be a tool"??? Well fuck you too asshole.

 

[The Convert]

I think it's more just basic miscommunication than anything else, on both sides. Remember, written word is a lot more difficult to convey emotion/tone than in person.

Get outta here with your mediating logic. Lol

 

[The Convert]

"Reality" yeah...in reality.

All you fuckers do is come and post negative comments about how things are anecdotal or people are getting ripped off immediately from the start. And when I point your stupidity out you get all butt hurt and continue to try to tear people down with comments that have shit to do with the topic. So excuse me but fuck off.

You like to dish it out but you cry like babies when it is given back to you. This is the mirror... you don't like what you see? Then change yourself. People don't tell you to fuck off for no reason.

"I merely made a comment that it would be INTERESTING to see the before and after logs.."

You have selective memory. You stated it was anecdotal.... so i told you ignore the post... because it is useless to you. Then YOU started the name calling you sensitive hypocrite. "No need to be a tool"??? Well fuck you too asshole.

Even after I told you what "anecdotal" means, you still see its use as insulting??? You truly are as useful as a poop flavored lollipop.

 

[08_335i]

Holy shit this was pure gold to read

By data you mean measurements from the computer? Exact rates etc...

So my analog eyeball seeing 3xx miles as opposed to 160 mile on a tank means nothing... again, ignore the post. It is useless you anyone who wants computer data.

It's not that it means nothing, but it doesn't mean that the other parts you replaced weren't contributing to shitty gas mileage, and the O2's being garbage, helped being the final piece.

 

[matreyia]

Even after I told you what "anecdotal" means, you still see its use as insulting??? You truly are as useful as a poop flavored lollipop.

Thanks for posting the definition. I had no idea what it meant. No shit Sherlock.

The definition in clinical context is only one part of communication. But hey.... don't mind me...I would not know anything about big picture context since I am supposed to be a poor cheapskate who bought a cheap beat up used 335i and doesn't know how to work on it.

Literally everything you have assumed has been negated...from what you think you know about me to what you claim is impossible. And even now you have not apologized for your errors and just admit that you don't know everything and you might just simply be wrong about the techs ripping me off... or IF under warranty, the techs padding work load to make a buck under labor rates from warranty, or me stuffing cat... material inside the oil hole (which is impossible since I drove uninterrupted to the dealership)... then your assumptions about a bunch of other things that were negated... so all you have is literally name calling and constant attempts at tearing down. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a hypocrite...and the worst kind because you see not what you do.

Do you have anything relevant to say to the topics or you just want to continue showing your stupidity while acting sanctimonious and indignant about my posture towards you?

 

[matreyia]

Holy shit this was pure gold to read
It's not that it means nothing, but it doesn't mean that the other parts you replaced weren't contributing to shitty gas mileage, and the O2's being garbage, helped being the final piece.

So what you are saying is that even though the car had the exact same shitty mileage before, during and after all due parts were replaced... you think it was a combination of the replaced parts plus the o2 sensors that fixed it?

Do you realize you sound like what @langsbr calls - part swapping monkey?

Think about it...
same gas mileage before all parts replaced.
same gas mileage during replacement of all replaceable parts at each and all stages.
same gas mileage AFTER replacement of replaceable parts.
BUT....immediate gas mileage improvement to original factory standards AFTER 100k miles o2 sensor recommended replacement.

Now I don't know how much more simple it can be shown that it is obvious that the only different thing in all these situations is the set of brand spanking new o2 sensors. And I don't understand why anyone would need a data log to prove it. It's not rocket science and it's not like I am trying to tweak or tune anything so why would I even consider a log over recommended maintenance? I don't run logs on any oil changes, plugs, coils or literally any maintenance items because I am not interested in them. I am not a log nerd. The only time I want to waste on a log is when submitting a to Wedge Performance or soon, Twisted Tuning.

And if anyone thinks for a moment that I am saying that changing o2 sensors is going to fix their mileage issues... that person would be in error because their car is unique in its history and maintenance. And any number of thing(s) can be causing their mileage issues.

 

[The Convert]

I am not a log nerd. The only time I want to waste on a log is when submitting a to Wedge Performance or soon, Twisted Tuning.

You had me at wedge tuning. Lolololol

 

[matreyia]

Wow you are a fucking arrogant snob. Are you aware of this? First I am a cheapskate, then I am Moron forpaying too much for Dinan which is junk to you, now wedge is shit too...next twisted tuning is shit too?

So was i stupid to buy Dinan to keep warranty intact? Or should I have really cheaped out and bought the biggest baddest JB4 or Cobb tune like so many others... then complain about misfires and ask about how to fool dealerships to honoring warranties?

Goddamned hypocrites. I had a warranty, I wanted to keep the warranty so I got Dinan parts... so do me a favor a go fuck yourself. You keep talking shit without even considering any reasons.

 

[colo_evo]

Wow you are a fucking arrogant snob. Are you aware of this? First I am a cheapskate, then I am Moron forpaying too much for Dinan which is junk to you, now wedge is shit too...next twisted tuning is shit too?

So was i stupid to buy Dinan to keep warranty intact? Or should I have really cheaped out and bought the biggest baddest JB4 or Cobb tune like so many others... then complain about misfires and ask about how to fool dealerships to honoring warranties?

Goddamned hypocrites. I had a warranty, I wanted to keep the warranty so I got Dinan parts... so do me a favor a go fuck yourself. You keep talking shit without even considering any reasons.

Do you post on other forums besides this one? If yes, I'd like to follow, your replies are totally awesome. Your thought proceed and reasoning is mind blowing.

I almost feel cheated that I never noticed your posts until the last few days.

 

[The Convert]

Do you post on other forums besides this one? If yes, I'd like to follow, your replies are totally awesome. Your thought proceed and reasoning is mind blowing.

I almost feel cheated that I never noticed your posts until the last few days.

He's like a god damned sage, right?

 

[The Convert]

Wow you are a fucking arrogant snob. Are you aware of this? First I am a cheapskate, then I am Moron forpaying too much for Dinan which is junk to you, now wedge is shit too...next twisted tuning is shit too?

So was i stupid to buy Dinan to keep warranty intact? Or should I have really cheaped out and bought the biggest baddest JB4 or Cobb tune like so many others... then complain about misfires and ask about how to fool dealerships to honoring warranties?

Goddamned hypocrites. I had a warranty, I wanted to keep the warranty so I got Dinan parts... so do me a favor a go fuck yourself. You keep talking shit without even considering any reasons.

Twisted tuning is the only good decision you've made this far. Personally, I think you should just sell your car though. Your candle doesn't quite burn bright enough for this platform I'm afraid.

 

[matreyia]

I'll make this thought process easy to understand for you.

@Convert has a predilection for prejudice. He judges things and persons according to his emotions. He judges that I was:

1. A stupid person who got taken for a ride by the dealership because of my report of catalytic material in the engine and oil in addition to rod bearing material. -- when informed that the engine was under warranty, he then went on to judge the techs at the dealership - accusing people he did not know of being corrupt and making up jobs to get hourly rates from the warranty work. He even gave a time frame - said that they were probably having a slow week. When informed they took an entire month to finish the job due to ordering the engine direct from Munich... silence fell.

These prejudiced ideas arose in him because he just thought he knew all possibilities about exhaust systems... so in his mind, as well as others who chimed in... it was impossible. My story was simply impossible.

2. He then moved onto the next prejudgements and said according to his analysis, I was a mid 20's young man who bought a cheap old 335i and didn't know how to fix anything. I guess he forgot the part about the warranty and free new engine. Or maybe cheap used bmws all get free engines under perpetual warranties? Also...something about being a liberal. Also something about a job that apparently has relevance to the original topic...who the fuck knows what that cunt was thinking.

3. When informed about my age and job and the car was decked out with Dinan FBO (I didn't mention the exhaust is BMW Performance Exhaust - my bad)...he then goes on to judge me as being a moron for spending so much money on those parts... I guess he had no idea that in order to have warranties intact, Dinan was the only hardware allowed on warranted cars... mine was warrantied until 100k miles. So here, I am apparently not a cheapskate, but a moron who spent too much money... he gave no alternatives, he just kept on complaining and accusing and judging.

4. During our exchange he, AND you and others totally ignored ryanmamikel's testimony and continued to happily accuse, insult, name call.

So I ask you...what the fuck are you doing here wasting your time with me? Do you and all those other cunts have a point to make besides, "boo hoo you are a rude bag of dicks".

If you want to act like a smart ass... then at least be consistent. Berating a person for his supposed stupidity, then asking him to show you all his posts is unbecoming of a person who is berating. Because if you were more knowledgeable or smart or whatever it is you believe you are... you would know how to use the search function in Google and in all Forums. Or at least fucking click on the damn profile to find out all their posts.

But fuck it, you know what? Here's a post you can easily visit and take a shit on... there are even pics of my cheap piece of shit car that you and Convert can laugh at too!

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/6ph21-atf-cooler-front-grill-install-pics.1694/

oh...and here... go take a shit in this post too....

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/335i-mmp-inlet-csf-radiator-caveat.1673/

You are welcome to take as many shits on any and all my posts if it makes you feel like a man and you find meaning in your life.