VTT GC 2.0 Review

[martymil]

We have a guy here that is brilliant with these engines and has built a few without issue with 30+ years of experience including mine.

The weather is turning colder now and heading into winter, took my car out for the first time in many weeks forgotten how fun this car
is to drive with these turbos.

I have to thank v8bait and his big brain for helping us tune this current setup, my very own engine whisperer. LOL

 

[Itsbrokeagain]

I found that miles mean nothing as I can run 34 psi on twins and make them last thousands of miles
on hwy as they barely ever see any major boost.

Now track miles on spirited canyon/mountain runs is very different and this is where the turbo manufacturers are set apart.

which is exactly why I commented up above. My client drives hard and puts it away wet. I think when he tosses me the keys for a weekend, it gets a break because I grandma the thing around.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Love it! Run 'em hard!

Oh geez you guys are the worst. You still going to tell him that when they blow up in the typical GC fashion in short order? (Yes, even the 2.0's are failing the same turbine failure fate).

I could have possibly ran the lites with my setup and still made the same power because of the fuel quality limitation but at least I know if I want to turn it up I can with a tank of e85.

Bloody brilliant turbos, I'm glad I made the switch.

OP good yours are holding up thus far... but chances are they will not after you turn em up a bit more or give it a bit more time.

The problem in these units has never been the turbines' design or materials, it is literally all in the machining of the turbine housings in and around the diffuser. We can take pictures to illustrate, or better yet you don't take our word for it as any 3rd party with the setup could look and find this theirselves. All it takes is to look into the turbine housing inlet and viewing the turbine wheels (Inducer to Exducer via contour) relationship (or lack thereof) with the housing. The good news is that with the gross amount of error in the diffuser sizing they WILL move some air, and while this is great for power it is however horrible for reliability- and response will suffer too.

Additionally from what we have seen the version 1.0 housings are actually machined marginally better than the 2.0 housings (using "better" in a very loose way here) and are metallurgically superior as well. IMO it is beyond safe to say every set of both setups will eventually experience the same turbine failure mode, that is if they don't begin smoking or anything else build/balance related first. The biggest problem is that if they were to experience that typical mode of GC turbine failure, the best resolve is to scrap the turbine housings and start off with a new housing set that are machined correctly for the wheel in question. Unfortunately what this means is basically an entirely new set of turbos, all on borrowed time.

Rob

 

[martymil]

I had these turned up to 28psi on e85 with absolutely no issues to run a number and stress the motor and turbos to see if there is any weak links for over 1000 miles.

They held up just fine but I just dont want to run e85 anymore as I don't have any need for it.

These have been stellar on 25 to 26psi on e10 to e20, will they last well thats what this review is for to report and thus far they have.

They have almost 7000 fun miles now and if they last another 3000 thats more than any other turbos I had previously.

But I don't expect twins to last at this level but what makes these attractive is they are a lot quicker and far cheaper to change over than oem housings.

I like your products too but i havent been able to get any of them lately here in oz through the usall importer, why is that ?

 

[Asbjorn]

Oh geez you guys are the worst. You still going to tell him that when they blow up in the typical GC fashion in short order? (Yes, even the 2.0's are failing the same turbine failure fate).



OP good yours are holding up thus far... but chances are they will not after you turn em up a bit more or give it a bit more time.

The problem in these units has never been the turbines' design or materials, it is literally all in the machining of the turbine housings in and around the diffuser. We can take pictures to illustrate, or better yet you don't take our word for it as any 3rd party with the setup could look and find this theirselves. All it takes is to look into the turbine housing inlet and viewing the turbine wheels (Inducer to Exducer via contour) relationship (or lack thereof) with the housing. The good news is that with the gross amount of error in the diffuser sizing they WILL move some air, and while this is great for power it is however horrible for reliability- and response will suffer too.

Additionally from what we have seen the version 1.0 housings are actually machined marginally better than the 2.0 housings (using "better" in a very loose way here) and are metallurgically superior as well. IMO it is beyond safe to say every set of both setups will eventually experience the same turbine failure mode, that is if they don't begin smoking or anything else build/balance related first. The biggest problem is that if they were to experience that typical mode of GC turbine failure, the best resolve is to scrap the turbine housings and start off with a new housing set that are machined correctly for the wheel in question. Unfortunately what this means is basically an entirely new set of turbos, all on borrowed time.

Rob

Let's be constructive and base our comments on facts.

I invite you to document, with proof, any MarM-version GC turbine failures that happened due to the above. Because people considering VTT and reading this are only able to buy the newest MarM version. Others are probably covered under warranty, and won't really benefit from your comment anyhow. I mean, what do you want us to do? Avoid boost? Swap the turbos before they fail? Let's be constructive and fact-based about current products being sold.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I had these turned up to 28psi on e85 with absolutely no issues to run a number and stress the motor and turbos to see if there is any weak links for over 1000 miles.

They held up just fine but I just dont want to run e85 anymore as I don't have any need for it.

These have been stellar on 25 to 26psi on e10 to e20, will they last well thats what this review is for to report and thus far they have.

They have almost 7000 fun miles now and if they last another 3000 thats more than any other turbos I had previously.

But I don't expect twins to last at this level but what makes these attractive is they are a lot quicker and far cheaper to change over than oem housings.

I like your products too but i havent been able to get any of them lately here in oz through the usall importer, why is that ?

All good sir. Just putting it out there so when your number is called you have the question already pre-answered.

Let's be constructive and base our comments on facts.

I invite you to document, with proof, any MarM-version GC turbine failures that happened due to the above. Because people considering VTT and reading this are only able to buy the newest MarM version. Others are probably covered under warranty, and won't really benefit from your comment anyhow. I mean, what do you want us to do? Avoid boost? Swap the turbos before they fail? Let's be constructive and fact-based about current products being sold.

It depends on the perspective here as these units have been basically "updated with cure" every 6 months or so since product intro. So if you referring to yet another of the "we are bout ready to do this" offerings then there may not be any documented to fail yet, but we also are not sure they have even started shipping them yet either? However if you are referring to the heavily touted to be "cured" GC 2.0 setups, yes we have proof of these failing the same turbine chunked fin fate and have stated the reasons why this is the case.

Something tells us that instead of being forthright about it this will just be reported then pushed out to the Octagon and subsequently ignored... but perhaps the actual vendor can just put it out there themselves instead of skirting around it as usual. Until then they are welcome for finally having the answer to the root cause of the issues.

Rob

 

[Asbjorn]

All good sir. Just putting it out there so when your number is called you have the question already pre-answered.



It depends on the perspective here as these units have been basically "updated with cure" every 6 months or so since product intro. So if you referring to yet another of the "we are bout ready to do this" offerings then there may not be any documented to fail yet, but we also are not sure they have even started shipping them yet either? However if you are referring to the heavily touted to be "cured" GC 2.0 setups, yes we have proof of these failing the same turbine chunked fin fate and have stated the reasons why this is the case.

Something tells us that instead of being forthright about it this will just be reported then pushed out to the Octagon and subsequently ignored... but perhaps the actual vendor can just put it out there themselves instead of skirting around it as usual. Until then they are welcome for finally having the answer to the root cause of the issues.

Rob

Well, at least I am happy to hear that you haven't seen any issues with the current version GCs (MarM) that was announced in December last year.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Well, at least I am happy to hear that you haven't seen any issues with the current version GCs (MarM) that was announced in December last year.

When did they start shipping ~1-2 months ago? If so yeah will have to wait about 4-6 months before start hearing about them.

 

[Itsbrokeagain]

Rob, I think I mentioned this before elsewhere but your constant badgering of Vargas is getting long in the tooth. Several of my clients are successful in their industries and they all tell me the same thing: Make your product excellent and work in silence, and let the results speak for itself. Talking bad or putting down other vendors makes you look like a poor sport and in their industries you'll end up losing more business than gaining.

Anywho enough ranting and back to the topic at hand.

 

[MoreBoost]

Sounds like I've done well to get 30,000 miles and about 2.5 years out of my 1.0 GCs then.
This housing theory sounds quite far fetched. Delaminating turbines I can believe. The fact I run loads of water/meth keeping egts down makes sense to why mine have lasted.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Bah. Run 'em hard anyway! They're pretty sturdy, but if you run into problems we'll do our best to square you away and make it right. SImple as that. I'm ~3 years into working with Tony and we're growing every year, getting better and offering more for your $ each time around. I've enjoyed getting to know a lot of you guys through email and phone calls, and I really enjoy hearing about guys just having fun driving their cars, because that's what this is all about.


Chris

 

[langsbr]

LOL, looks like Rob's new super duper cast turbos aren't panning out so he has to resort to more trash talk, or as I call it "RB advertising".

 

[doublespaces]

Oh geez you guys are the worst. You still going to tell him that when they blow up in the typical GC fashion in short order? (Yes, even the 2.0's are failing the same turbine failure fate).



OP good yours are holding up thus far... but chances are they will not after you turn em up a bit more or give it a bit more time.

The problem in these units has never been the turbines' design or materials, it is literally all in the machining of the turbine housings in and around the diffuser. We can take pictures to illustrate, or better yet you don't take our word for it as any 3rd party with the setup could look and find this theirselves. All it takes is to look into the turbine housing inlet and viewing the turbine wheels (Inducer to Exducer via contour) relationship (or lack thereof) with the housing. The good news is that with the gross amount of error in the diffuser sizing they WILL move some air, and while this is great for power it is however horrible for reliability- and response will suffer too.

Additionally from what we have seen the version 1.0 housings are actually machined marginally better than the 2.0 housings (using "better" in a very loose way here) and are metallurgically superior as well. IMO it is beyond safe to say every set of both setups will eventually experience the same turbine failure mode, that is if they don't begin smoking or anything else build/balance related first. The biggest problem is that if they were to experience that typical mode of GC turbine failure, the best resolve is to scrap the turbine housings and start off with a new housing set that are machined correctly for the wheel in question. Unfortunately what this means is basically an entirely new set of turbos, all on borrowed time.

Rob

Dear Rob,

This thread was a report from an actual user on their experience. Why must you insert your opinion here? This forum has a motto: Keep other vendor's out of your mouth. I've had to message you multiple times about this and I'm at the point where I may need to add yet another rule (Run ins with Tony help me craft the first several but you have filled the void) which prevents vendors from giving critical feedback anywhere except the Octagon. I really like to have more open places than closed, but this is really just unnecessary. Could I ask you to go make your own thread about this in the Octagon where you can complain all you want and allow this thread to remain on topic, which was for the OP to give their thoughts on the build. No where does it say, "Please come in here and shit on my thread and the mods I've chosen for my vehicle". If your opinion turns out to be the popular one, then I'm sure that thread will be successful.

There are other forums where drama is king, but personally I'd rather separate the soap operas from everything else that makes this site good.

 

[doublespaces]

this will just be reported then pushed out to the Octagon and subsequently ignored

It isn't like I'm doing the reporting and you also have to consider, maybe people don't go to the Octagon because they don't care to read about or interact with the complaints or negative topics. Mixing more negative topics and complaints into the general reading areas doesn't make much sense in that case now does it. The forum is setup so all threads that get bumped in all sections including the Octagon, will appear quite literally at the top of the board as a "New Post" which is the latest, unread post on the forum for any particular viewer. Even the least popular thread subject will be seen by hundreds of individuals, they are just choosing not to participate. Everything has a place. Some threads in the Octagon are of interest and that area represents a place to have a voice which is quite important in my opinion. This one with over 13k views that ordinarily would amount to a few complaints wisped away into the bowels of Facebook history is an example:

Beware of ZNM Performance in Pompton Lakes NJ

It seems lately there is never ending stories about fake tuners, scammer manufacturers, and part suppliers. Unfortunately, I have had my own experience and would like to inform others. The problem I have is with Matt Malave, owner of ZNM performance in Pompton Lakes NJ. I inquired Matt about...

bmw.spoolstreet.com

 

[MoreBoost]

I'll be honest though. I feel like I dodged a bullet that I shouldn't have had to.
It's likely my turbines are defective but that my setup has suppressed the problem.
Had I run pump gas only they could have let go. It's a disgrace that those kinds of situations were allowed to occur.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Rob, I think I mentioned this before elsewhere but your constant badgering of Vargas is getting long in the tooth. Several of my clients are successful in their industries and they all tell me the same thing: Make your product excellent and work in silence, and let the results speak for itself. Talking bad or putting down other vendors makes you look like a poor sport and in their industries you'll end up losing more business than gaining.

Anywho enough ranting and back to the topic at hand.

We've been silent about this for nearly 3 years now, and while it has been fun chuckling about it with some other big platform names over the past long while... there should be some point where someone spills the beans finally eh? How many other wheel variations you want to try before the truth is exposed anyway? This is a big continual defect that they clearly do not have a good handle on and it is costing many people a fortune...

Dear Rob,

This thread was a report from an actual user on their experience. Why must you insert your opinion here? This forum has a motto: Keep other vendor's out of your mouth. I've had to message you multiple times about this and I'm at the point where I may need to add yet another rule (Run ins with Tony help me craft the first several but you have filled the void) which prevents vendors from giving critical feedback anywhere except the Octagon. I really like to have more open places than closed, but this is really just unnecessary. Could I ask you to go make your own thread about this in the Octagon where you can complain all you want and allow this thread to remain on topic, which was for the OP to give their thoughts on the build. No where does it say, "Please come in here and shit on my thread and the mods I've chosen for my vehicle". If your opinion turns out to be the popular one, then I'm sure that thread will be successful.

There are other forums where drama is king, but personally I'd rather separate the soap operas from everything else that makes this site good.

Who said that what I have stated is an opinion? It is more like calling a spade a spade. And it really doesnt take a rocket scientist to see these housings are hacked to hell, it is no wonder why their reliability has been flaky at best. Now you all go find another quality turbo that is built (casted/machined) like this and let us know, we will be here waiting.

PS. Feeling extra nice today so fired up the ole boroscope and snapped a shot of a Native TD04HL wheel to housing relationship, and this should be the goal in these sorts of builds.

Rob

 

[Itsbrokeagain]

Again @Rob@RBTurbo, why is it your duty to report on someone else's poor manufacturing? Let the people decide. If Vargas has crap turbos and everyone buys them and they blow up, eventually no one will buy their product and go to yours or somewhere else. In this day and age of the internet and how word gets around, he'd be dead in the water within a month. So YOU do YOU, and let him be. If his customers want to bad mouth them, they have the right to do so.

That's all I'm saying about this, @martymil 's thread has been more than derailed at this point. @doublespaces if you choose to move this to it's own beast in the octagon you're more than welcome to.

 

[langsbr]

Again @Rob@RBTurbo, why is it your duty to report on someone else's poor manufacturing? Let the people decide. If Vargas has crap turbos and everyone buys them and they blow up, eventually no one will buy their product and go to yours or somewhere else. In this day and age of the internet and how word gets around, he'd be dead in the water within a month. So YOU do YOU, and let him be. If his customers want to bad mouth them, they have the right to do so.

That's all I'm saying about this, @martymil 's thread has been more than derailed at this point. @doublespaces if you choose to move this to it's own beast in the octagon you're more than welcome to.

This is just Rob doing what he calls "advertising". He's never posted a single development or product thread, and only jumps into other vendor threads or customers of other products to add his helpful bit. Notice there isn't much/any customer reports of ANYTHING with regards to RB. Rob would have you believe that his customers don't know what the internet is and for most of his stage 1 rebuilds that get shilled to housewives and grandpas, he's right. Very few of his out there in performance aspect.

To be fair, I did run across one guy at the drag strip that said he had a set of RBs on his car that made 600+ whp . I was impressed, until he said they blew up and Rob wouldn't do anything about it, lol.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Again @Rob@RBTurbo, why is it your duty to report on someone else's poor manufacturing? Let the people decide. If Vargas has crap turbos and everyone buys them and they blow up, eventually no one will buy their product and go to yours or somewhere else. In this day and age of the internet and how word gets around, he'd be dead in the water within a month. So YOU do YOU, and let him be. If his customers want to bad mouth them, they have the right to do so.

That's all I'm saying about this, @martymil 's thread has been more than derailed at this point. @doublespaces if you choose to move this to it's own beast in the octagon you're more than welcome to.

It is not that I do not agree with you on the business practice aspects, but I can say I've never orchestrated a Class Action Lawsuit against them either (which is more than I can say for them).

At any rate at least we can agree on the obviously poor manufacturing, and now the people have another bit of information to work with to make more intelligent decisions (and actually hear about their problems STILL not being cured years upon years later).

Rob

 

[martymil]

Rob ever heard the term fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me that goes for every turbo manufacturer including yourself.

I'm giving vtt a chance now, and they have been more than stellar in every way.

Let's just leave it there.