Wagner Evo 3 Intercooler Review Coming Soon

matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,075
Wagner Evo 3 is good- about 3-5 °C better then a VRSF 7,5"... But since its way more expensive, i dont feel its worth it.
We only sell it for racecars which want the least weight possible, because the wagner has a tube & fin core which is around 5kg less then the heavy bar&plate options....

Evo 1 and 2 are really not up to the task, even for FBO power levels.... I´m from germany and i know at least 500 logs with the different coolers.
My past experience with vrsf has taught me a lesson. Spending less money can often be more expensive than the more money versions. Their craft is low quality visually and fitment is not good. Additionally, I saw detail pics of each unit and there is no comparison. Also I doubt vrsf can afford to make the internal channels for airflow control. So I reckon they can only compete via brute force with size. But same size and heacier is not acceptable in my preference.

I also suspect that the dinan unit cannot keep up with a true FBO car. So hope this wagner 3 will let it breath easier.
 

MDORPHN

Corporal
Jan 28, 2018
114
As discussed in this thread <https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/n54-cooling-temp-control-logic-and-what-are-your-temps-during-extended-track-use.4352/page-7 , I'm having better less IAT gain in my single turbo 1M during extended sessions on a road race course with a 7" VRSF HD than the very large custom-built intercooler I'd previously beem running. The smaller non-stepped intercooler is entirely in unimpeded airflow and does not heat soak, presumably because none of it is behind the bumper cover.

Of course, I also have a BNIB Wagner Evo 3 in my basement.

Neil
 
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Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,033
Boston
Tube and fin is more efficient with respect to its weight so on a race cah I would suspect that is the winner. They are significantly more fragile so on the street with pebbles, rocks, and other debris bar and plate would be the winner. It's kind of a toss up I think. I prefer bar and plate for all the reasons stated in the article I posted above.

With either design you have to weigh restriction & cooling in because of the fins pack density, which is how/where the thermal transfer occurs. We really just need a front bumper & crash bar 'mod' to allow more airflow to the intercooler.
 
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MDORPHN

Corporal
Jan 28, 2018
114
There is a difference in their design right? IIRC tube & plate Wagner vs. bar and fin VRSF. There are advantages and disadvantages to both: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/

I would think the difference in design would explain the very slight difference in cooling.

I'll take and bar and plate please for many reasons.
The linked piece is an interview with Spearco, which makes excellent bar and plate cores and does make tube and fin. FWIW, lots of road racers prefer tube and fin.

Neil
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
My past experience with vrsf has taught me a lesson. Spending less money can often be more expensive than the more money versions. Their craft is low quality visually and fitment is not good. Additionally, I saw detail pics of each unit and there is no comparison. Also I doubt vrsf can afford to make the internal channels for airflow control. So I reckon they can only compete via brute force with size. But same size and heacier is not acceptable in my preference.

I also suspect that the dinan unit cannot keep up with a true FBO car. So hope this wagner 3 will let it breath easier.
Can't see Wagner not being huge upgrade I think dinan was a stett rebrand iirc and my point was everyone says vrsf great cause it was the most used so had the most people to write about it. Now that's not saying their new cores aren't competitive.
 

mnick

Lurker
Jan 11, 2018
23
Tampa
The linked piece is an interview with Spearco, which makes excellent bar and plate cores and does make tube and fin. FWIW, lots of road racers prefer tube and fin.

Neil
How much do you want for your Evo three?

Air flowing through a 7 inch intercooler nonstep FMIC isn’t great, maybe better on pre-LCI. I had an AA 6” which was a comparable design to the VSRF 7 nonstep and it heat soaked terribly.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,106
Virginia
They are significantly more fragile so on the street with pebbles, rocks, and other debris bar and plate would be the winner.
Actually my experience is that the track is a horrible place when it comes to pebbles and rocks, way more than the street. First off people go off course everywhere and drag stuff on all the time. Only place I didn't see that was Indy because they ran street cleaners around the whole track a few times a day, so we got to drive an unusually debri-free track! But then almost no one has driven Indy so it's an exception for sure. Second lots of tracks are goat trails. Third super sticky tires basically make those black things stone grabbers and hurlers. Lastly typical impact speeds are 70-140mph, plus any projectile speed if a stone got hurled off a tire. The front of a race car typically looks like its been in a meat grinder when it gets enough track days. Agree on the general fragility comment, though.

Filippo
 
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MDORPHN

Corporal
Jan 28, 2018
114
Wagner's comparison of their "performance" bar and plate intercoolers and their "competition" tube and fin:

Our Performance Intercoolers have a BAR & PLATE core which offers excellent cooling and improved flow characteristics compared to the OEM unit.

The BAR & PLATE construction is relatively heavy so there is a certain temperature inertia. Meaning under load the core takes longer to heat, but also longer to cool down once the load is removed.

This is fine for on the road but for use on the race track this core construction is not particularly suitable as it arrives at a constant cooling performance at varying loads in the full load range. Also weight reduction is an important consideration for track use.

Our Competition Intercoolers have a TUBE FIN core which offer excellent cooling and flow characteristics compared to both OEM and our Performance Intercoolers.

The fine structure of the TUBE FIN core makes them relatively light and exchange heat much faster. This type of core construction takes temperatures relatively quickly, but also very quickly transfers this away again. For a constant cooling performance in a dynamic throttle situation this is a indispensable feature.

The Competition intercooler are suitable for *street use as well as at the race track.

Neil
 
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frontside0815

Corporal
Nov 9, 2016
125
Germany
The theory behind VRSF and a lot of other big cores which came out recently (PSP etc.) is quite simple: Take a bar&plate net which is really heavy and can absorb heat very good (but also takes longer to cool down after heated up) and make it as big as possible....

In theory a tube&fin net is the more expensive net which can transfer heat better (cools down faster, but also heats up faster), but up2date besides the evo3 there is no tube&fin option which is big enough to cool good enough. The Evo 1 and 2 and all other tube&fin fmics in that size heat up really fast because they are just to small even for 400HP.... They cool down faster than bar&plate options, but that doesnt help if it means you will do a pull of one gear and already have 120°Fahrenheit IAT meaning the DME will reduce timing....

So far i didnt see logs of evo3 cars on the racetrack... VRSF performs well on the track, but that also depends heavily on the setup.

In theory a tube&fin is the better one for track cars, because like i said, it cools down faster after it heated up. But from my logs on the racetrack the vrsf is so big, that you usually wont have more then 120°fahrenheit also in a 20min stint of road course driving. Evo 3 should be the best, since it cools a little bit better than the big bar&plate cores AND should cool down faster- but you pay for that....
 

zcchen

Lurker
Nov 19, 2018
13
I run the EVO3 on my 1M making about 400whp on stock turbos, 98RON. When I logged WOT 3rd gear pull, my IAT went down from 82F at ~2000rpm to 78F at ~6900rpm. Impressive!
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
I was def gonna disagree that the evo 2 is not able to support high power. Their are a few guys that went from other brands to the evo 2 and saw slight improvement or comparable performance. These also happen to be posts with multiple logs of the different brands and some were running hybrids so they were pushing them.
From my understanding a tube and fin can look similar from outside but the difference is that it has thinner wall construction and basically just imagine a baseboard but air instead of water on inside.
 

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frontside0815

Corporal
Nov 9, 2016
125
Germany
I was def gonna disagree that the evo 2 is not able to support high power. Their are a few guys that went from other brands to the evo 2 and saw slight improvement or comparable performance. These also happen to be posts with multiple logs of the different brands and some were running hybrids so they were pushing them.
From my understanding a tube and fin can look similar from outside but the difference is that it has thinner wall construction and basically just imagine a baseboard but air instead of water on inside.
You can disagree but i have, like stated, more then a handful logs to support my statement.
Usually the ones saying the small wagners are good are people which not ever once did logs to proof their statements....
 

Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
You can disagree but i have, like stated, more then a handful logs to support my statement.
Usually the ones saying the small wagners are good are people which not ever once did logs to proof their statements....
I agree with everything except the evo 2 part that is not a small fmic. Their are 2 different evo 2s maybe that's why we're the issue is
 

mnick

Lurker
Jan 11, 2018
23
Tampa
Usually the ones saying the small wagners are good are people which not ever once did logs to proof their statements....
They are good, the small ones...
e30 td04 unknown power https://datazap.me/u/mnick/mhd-e30-base?log=2&data=3-15-22
e60 stocker 460whp/530wtp https://datazap.me/u/mnick/bqe60-n20-buraq-v13ptm?log=0&data=2-3-22

Having said this, I have logs which demonstrate better FMIC performance and worse... So many variables and nobody is logging the TIT. Could the performance be better? Sure and the bumper could be less restrictive too... The big picture for me is an improvement from the AA FMIC it replaced.
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
For stock turbos bigger isn't always better and the evo 2 wasn't small it's 90 percent bigger and a 7.5 race vrsf is 134 percent bigger than stock and the manufacturer says it isn't for stock turbos and to stick with the 7 HD for reg builds the 7.5 Is rated for 1000whp. Also people that ran multiple fmic all said Wagner had best street manners in that it has the least lag. This evo 3 is even bigger so should be a great fmic that will handle hybrids and or single if needed.
 
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gmx

Private
Dec 8, 2017
38
As discussed in this thread <https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/n54-cooling-temp-control-logic-and-what-are-your-temps-during-extended-track-use.4352/page-7 , I'm having better less IAT gain in my single turbo 1M during extended sessions on a road race course with a 7" VRSF HD than the very large custom-built intercooler I'd previously beem running. The smaller non-stepped intercooler is entirely in unimpeded airflow and does not heat soak, presumably because none of it is behind the bumper cover.

Of course, I also have a BNIB Wagner Evo 3 in my basement.

Neil
In for final impressions of all 3.
It would be worth asking your builder of the custom IC, what core type and manufacturer it is. That is the important factor. Greddy/Spearco/Bell are the age-old bees knees. If he used one of those, I'm surprised. But also not too much at China cores catching up.

Speaking of logs. Let's poke the bear and see who has empirical data where the doing away with the OEM quick disconnects on the inlet/outlet is a good idea.
Funny how VRSF's F2x intercoolers have the same "small flow restriction" CNC'd quick disconnects on them and no rubbish hose kit (they are all rubbish, Wagner, VRSF etc).
 
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Hydra Performance

Corporal
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
249
FWIW the Wagner Evo2 Competition is woefully inadequate. I would regularly see IATs of >160F at the end of a multi-gear pull on stock turbos running 21psi tapering to 17psi up top in 83F ambient temps, and no I did not have any boost leaks either. I sincerely hope, for their sake, that their Evo3 is an improvement...
 

Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
FWIW the Wagner Evo2 Competition is woefully inadequate. I would regularly see IATs of >160F at the end of a multi-gear pull on stock turbos running 21psi tapering to 17psi up top in 83F ambient temps, and no I did not have any boost leaks either. I sincerely hope, for their sake, that their Evo3 is an improvement...
What fmic did you switch to and how did it hold up? I ask cause alot had good results with the evo 2 and the info I value most is from people that upgraded to something different and still had good things to say. Everyone praises what they run but for someone to praise a product they don't use is huge.
Last question the 135 has alot less airflow on core than 335 or not really ?
 
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