Wagner Evo 3 Intercooler Review Coming Soon

MDORPHN

Corporal
Jan 28, 2018
114
In for final impressions of all 3.
It would be worth asking your builder of the custom IC, what core type and manufacturer it is. That is the important factor. Greddy/Spearco/Bell are the age-old bees knees. If he used one of those, I'm surprised. But also not too much at China cores catching up.

Speaking of logs. Let's poke the bear and see who has empirical data where the doing away with the OEM quick disconnects on the inlet/outlet is a good idea.
Funny how VRSF's F2x intercoolers have the same "small flow restriction" CNC'd quick disconnects on them and no rubbish hose kit (they are all rubbish, Wagner, VRSF etc).
Spearco core.

Neil
 
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gmx

Private
Dec 8, 2017
38
FWIW the Wagner Evo2 Competition is woefully inadequate. I would regularly see IATs of >160F at the end of a multi-gear pull on stock turbos running 21psi tapering to 17psi up top in 83F ambient temps, and no I did not have any boost leaks either. I sincerely hope, for their sake, that their Evo3 is an improvement...
Where's "running 21psi tapering to 17psi up top", at your altitude put you on the comp map...
 

Hydra Performance

Corporal
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
249
@gmx
This was at sea level. FWIW on 2 other similarly specced cars I've tuned here running ADE650s IATs would only increase 40F above ambient at the end of a multi-gear pull, so there's huge difference in intercooler effectiveness believe me.

@Rob09msport
I am currently running a Phoenix Race FMIC, which is performing extremely well, so well in fact that I am considering going with something smaller/lighter to better suit my purposes, as the very idea of having a 30lb mass so far forward bothers me - so I was thinking of either a (custom) tube and fin 7" non-stepped FMIC, or a custom water2air core in place of the charge pipe, with an OEM F85 heat exchanger + pump up front...
Lastly, I don't think there's any significant difference in face air velocity between the 135 and 335 front bumper covers.
 

gmx

Private
Dec 8, 2017
38
You'd definitely want a 650HP core to be effective when the shaft speeds are way off the compressor island. We are using 650, 1000 HP ICs on stock turbos that do what, 42-44lb/min? This doesn't sound ludicrous to anyone? :kissingheart:

@Hydra Performance Keen to see your custom tube and fin. If you go CNC'd quick disconnects welded on the endtanks, I'm interested. I see no reason to go large for no reason. Mass and placement of CoG is a common concern for us.
 

Hydra Performance

Corporal
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
249
@gmx
Just so you know, the Wagner Evo2 Comp on upgraded twins running 21psi flat would give an IAT rise of 60F during a multi-gear pull. Still underwhelming to say the least. Looking inside the core, it is very clear to see that the fin spacing isn't dense at all, on par with your typical chinesium core, and is likely the reason for its poor performance (+ light weight). Oh, plus the fact that its just 5.75" thick...

Intercooler likely isn't happening for another couple of months at least, have too much on my plate right now, and even then I would just use simple hose clamp connections on the endtanks to keep cost down. If its good enough for Group N rally cars, its certainly good enough for me :)
 
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[email protected]

Lieutenant
Free Vendor
Dec 7, 2016
608
St. Louis, MO USA
@gmx
Just so you know, the Wagner Evo2 Comp on upgraded twins running 21psi flat would give an IAT rise of 60F during a multi-gear pull. Still underwhelming to say the least. Looking inside the core, it is very clear to see that the fin spacing isn't dense at all, on par with your typical chinesium core, and is likely the reason for its poor performance (+ light weight). Oh, plus the fact that its just 5.75" thick...

Intercooler likely isn't happening for another couple of months at least, have too much on my plate right now, and even then I would just use simple hose clamp connections on the endtanks to keep cost down. If its good enough for Group N rally cars, its certainly good enough for me :)
Any chance the turbos were just on their last legs and thus not performing at their best? Even if not the OEM's are likely are blowing a ton of heat in the flow ranges you were in, even worse if pushing that hard on OE inlets.

Don't get me wrong would be nice to have an Intercooler to compensate regardless but there are a lot of variables to consider, assuming you didn't already check it out vs. another intercooler in the same environment.

All I've seen over the years seems to point to Wagner Evo 2 comp being a top flight intercooler, but if not would be nice to hear some others who have seen the same poor results.

This evo 3 is even bigger so should be a great fmic that will handle hybrids and or single if needed.
Overall I tend to agree with Rob09 here in that the Wagner Evo 3 should be a perfect Intercooler setup for most higher powered hybrids or ST's. Looking forward to the feedback from the OP.

Rob
 

RSL

Sergeant
Aug 11, 2017
345
Is everyone using the Competition? Those logs posted earlier have a lot of IAT movement that my Perf doesn't. That's to be expected, but seems a lot worse that I expected. It was mentioned before about Comp not looking like traditional tube/fin, they never have to me from the outside either. Those extrusions must be comparatively huge (and lower in count accordingly), I'd love to see what the fin structure looks like in them if anyone can get a camera in. Added size of the Evo 3 will at least add some more.

Random 19-21psi 3rd gear log in Texas with 101F ambient and heated Evo 2 Perf (3rd or 4th pull). Starting IAT 129F, ending 122F and staying there. Once IC is warmed up, 122F IAT was about as good as it got any time it's over 100F ambient.
evo2comp-101tamb.jpg



For stock turbos bigger isn't always better and the evo 2 wasn't small it's 90 percent bigger and a 7.5 race vrsf is 134 percent bigger than stock and the manufacturer says it isn't for stock turbos and to stick with the 7 HD for reg builds the 7.5 Is rated for 1000whp. Also people that ran multiple fmic all said Wagner had best street manners in that it has the least lag. This evo 3 is even bigger so should be a great fmic that will handle hybrids and or single if needed.
People that run turbos outside reasonable ranges cause their own heat issues. The Comp ICs seem to leave something to be desired as it is, but anyone that "needs" a race IC on stock turbos to keep IATs reasonable, doesn't have an IC problem. They have an expectation and too much boost (and probably DCI/hot side inlet) problem. ICs get blamed for things owners do all the time.

Dinan is Spearco core BTW and the Evo 2 is really not much larger than it. The main Evo 2 core is about the same size as the Dinan core with another ~3x3.5" core on top for the step. Construction/density is nearly identical inside and out. Evo 2 is noticeably better for rise/time, but I think most of that came from the sheet metal->thick cast end tank change. They are extremely similar and I seriously doubt the small step core outside of air flow is having that much impact.

dinan_evo2.jpg


In for final impressions of all 3.
It would be worth asking your builder of the custom IC, what core type and manufacturer it is. That is the important factor. Greddy/Spearco/Bell are the age-old bees knees. If he used one of those, I'm surprised. But also not too much at China cores catching up.

Speaking of logs. Let's poke the bear and see who has empirical data where the doing away with the OEM quick disconnects on the inlet/outlet is a good idea.
Funny how VRSF's F2x intercoolers have the same "small flow restriction" CNC'd quick disconnects on them and no rubbish hose kit (they are all rubbish, Wagner, VRSF etc).
Empirical for sure and maybe not that fair given the temp diff. Same map, last log on the Dinan, first log on the Evo 2 Comp that replaced it, but they were 2 days apart.

dinan_evo2.png



Some diff is surely attributed to temps, not sure how much can be attributed to dropping the stock connectors, but almost seems like it has to be a factor. They are definitely solid connectors, but have to believe they really are somewhat limiting at some point (maybe not so much on stock turbos). Then again, one or a few logs don't make it so. So long as I don't have problems with the silicone connectors (and haven't in the 2.5 years they've been in), I don't particularly care. May not prove they are helping, but they're not hurting either.

VD-test.png
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,151
Monroe CT
@hydra why not go ade again if you saw good results? I had multiple tuners say was the best. When I was shopping i went from almost going er to then cross shopping cpe and atm then wedge said ade and as much as everyone had their so called best the ade was the only one that everyone either said was the best or as good as what they ran lol.
I personally see temps drop second I hit boost and usually get within 10 degrees ambient on 1 gear and 3 gear pull puts me at ambient or slightly under or over. I know it's not really under but according to my sensor it's under prob to do with mirror heating fron sun or something.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,106
Virginia
So long as I don't have problems with the silicone connectors (and haven't in the 2.5 years they've been in), I don't particularly care. May not prove they are helping, but they're not hurting either.
Maybe misunderstood this comment or taking out of context. I infer from the first part of your sentence that you consider silicone connections to the FMIC could be a problem. If so, can you expound why?

Filippo
 

RSL

Sergeant
Aug 11, 2017
345
Maybe misunderstood this comment or taking out of context. I infer from the first part of your sentence that you consider silicone connections to the FMIC could be a problem. If so, can you expound why?

Filippo
Just out of context. gmx seemed to imply the stock style connection was superior (and potentially dropping them for larger bead/silicone connections was a step down for no improvement in flow). I don't care about the connection style one way or the other so long as silicone doesn't pop off, wear/tear through, etc. I was simply saying I never had a problem with with silicone/bead and that there are indicated gains by getting rid of stock connectors.
 
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martymil

Lieutenant
Free Vendor
Sep 6, 2017
858
Down Under
Why we run tube and fin in oz is because of the high ambient temps, bar and plate just heats up and stays heated up.

They run great numbers on the dyno but when on the track they just cant compete with a well designed tube and fin.

This is my last run at the track last year with our custom tube and fin, this is heat soaked and waiting for 20 mins to have a run.

starts at 100f



1.jpg
 
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MDORPHN

Corporal
Jan 28, 2018
114
Good stuff!

I'll likely install the Wagner Evo3 after this year's One Lap of America (May 4-11). The VRSF 7' HD is definitely an improvement over the very large bar and plate ic I had previously, but I'd still like to try to further reduce the increase in IAT during long sessions on track.

I have some concern about impeding flow to the radiator (and increasing coolant temps), but apparently tube and fin has better air through flow than bar and plate.

Neil
 
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matreyia

Captain
Apr 19, 2017
1,075
Good stuff!

I'll likely install the Wagner Evo3 after this year's One Lap of America (May 4-11). The VRSF 7' HD is definitely an improvement over the very large bar and plate ic I had previously, but I'd still like to try to further reduce the increase in IAT during long sessions on track.

I have some concern about impeding flow to the radiator (and increasing coolant temps), but apparently tube and fin has better air through flow than bar and plate.

Neil
I only noticed a few degrees more on coolant...well within operating temps from previously. It is a tight fit though...i will post photos soon.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,106
Virginia
I'm running an ER Competition FMIC in the Z4. Curious if others run them in the 1 and 3 series cars?

Filippo
 

martymil

Lieutenant
Free Vendor
Sep 6, 2017
858
Down Under
I'm showing results from our custom tube and fin which is huge compared to the wagner and until someone does a few tests
I wouldn't take the results I've shown and mistake them that they would be the same.
 
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