Wagner Evo 3 Intercooler Review Coming Soon
- Thread starter matreyia
- Start date
Yes, horses for courses.
Are you doing hybrids WTAC style, 1 lap dash for about 60-100seconds?
20minute sessions?
6 / 12 hr endurance races?
All would be different.
All would prefer light as possible upfront.
All would be drastically different from a drag racing config (ie, one that blocks or restricts flow to the radiator and overall cooling system).
@RSL It'd be better to compare the same core, endtank design to evaluate larger inlet piping. So yes, I would in addition to the ambient temp (6F is a non-issue imo), it is unfair for the aforementioned reason. For OEM tiny turbos pushing 42lb/min, it shouldn't be necessary. Cleaning up the merge of twins, and how twin turbos impact this - I don't know. Maybe that's where gains are seen. I will probably ask a local shop that fiddles regularly with RB26 twin setups for their observations. Solely based on the inducer/exducer spec of our turbo, the compressor outlet ID" - it makes zero sense.
My rig is available for sale but most people don't understand that custom jobs cost a little more than normal and get upset when they hear the price
Don't get me wrong the wagner is a great ic but if you want the best nothing I know of come close to the plazmaman ic's
Don't get me wrong the wagner is a great ic but if you want the best nothing I know of come close to the plazmaman ic's
I would say you are under-tired for your power. For cold braking on street, your OEM brakes way out power the PSS/AS3P tires, and you won't see any decrease in stopping distance by upgrading to BBK. Your brake might bite more if you select pads with higher cold friction coefficient, and your brake pedal may feel nicer with fixed pistons, but your braking distance wont decrease in emergency cold stopping scenarios. You are 100% tire limited in terms of emergency braking in the scenario you described.
I was shocked when I realized this after upgrading myself. Brakes feel awesome, and inspires confidence, but the data clearly shows that maximum deceleration is decided by the tires.
Do know that tires with plenty of thread may have less grip due to age. You cannot expect tires produced in 2016 to have anywhere near the same grip as tires produced in 2018. You can check the production date on the sidewall of the tire, I believe Michelin uses the format WWYY.
Same tire brand, same car, since 2013 - three different rotors of varying levels of price, three different pad brands and types... all have different characteristics, all performed differently, NOT because of the tire, but because of the type of rotor and pads. NOT because of steel lines or rubber lines. I don't know how you are doing things but there is absolutely a big difference in braking distance when you upgrade to BBK. I have seen this on many cars that have upgraded and ran the same exact tires. Distances were immediately shortened. You are arguing something that has already been witnessed by me personally multiple times, not just theory. If you like your stock pads and calipers, good for you. I am upgrading so I don't slam into anyone under sudden braking emergencies.
Consider that stock components are the bare minimum the makers install that yield acceptable safety and costs. They simply cannot install BBK levels of performance and make a profit at that price point. And if they do, such as in the M series... the price skyrockets. So let's not kid ourselves. And having driven M cars vs. my 335i...yeah, not even a debate, BBK do outperform the stock 335i brakes by a long shot. Same tires.
uh, did I say anything about causing accidents? It might sound like I am driving like a dick, but I signal each time I change lanes, I let people in when they signal or drive onto ramps. So spare me the judgement.
You don't even know WHY I accelerated and stopped suddenly. If you are in a car and someone is about to hit you, would you just keep on driving like there's nothing wrong, or would you accelerate out of the way?
M cars typically have better tires. Also drilled rotors look great, but are arguably not the best choice for serious driving... but lets not argue about this as well.
I would still claim, if the cold ABS-activated braking distance was shortened, it was because you had better grip. If you have problems with brakes overheating, you need different pads + fluid.
Here's data to support my claim. Below you will find a comparison between my 100% stock brakes and my current BBK kit. Same tires (AD08R), just 3 months older on the BBK run.
| Here's my OEM performance, sunny day | Here's my BBK performance, cloudy day |
I am running the ER competition intercooler on my E92. The intercooler was on the car when I bought it and it performed great on oem turbos. I ended up doing MMP stage 3 turbos a few months ago and was going to replace it with a VRSF 7.5 or big PSP but I cant find a good reason to yet. I just had the car tuned recently on full E85 and 26psi boost and IATs are 10-15 degrees above ambient air temp. Pretty impressive for a smaller non-stepped intercooler. Curious to see how it does in the upcoming summer months.
"I barely stopped in time yesterday and almost rear ended someone after acceleration in traffic." - this was written.
One person reads this and thinks, "this guy drives like a dick".
Another person reads this and thinks, "good lord, I wonder why he had to do such a dangerous thing."
You are the first guy. I am the second guy.
I have driven many BMWs -- some stock, some highly modified -- on street and track. With proper pads and fluid, I've never had a problem on the street. In fact, if you can trigger ABS -- as you might in a panic stop -- you know that that the limit on the stopping distance is the tires, not the brakes.
I've gone to BBK on my track car primarily because of increased feel/brake modulatibility and because of increased resistance to fade during long sessions on track involving repeated threshold braking from very high speeds (150 mph+).
Neil
I've gone to BBK on my track car primarily because of increased feel/brake modulatibility and because of increased resistance to fade during long sessions on track involving repeated threshold braking from very high speeds (150 mph+).
Neil
M cars typically have better tires. Also drilled rotors look great, but are arguably not the best choice for serious driving... but lets not argue about this as well.
I would still claim, if the cold ABS-activated braking distance was shortened, it was because you had better grip. If you have problems with brakes overheating, you need different pads + fluid.
Here's data to support my claim. Below you will find a comparison between my 100% stock brakes and my current BBK kit. Same tires (AD08R), just 3 months older on the BBK run.
Here's my OEM performance, sunny day
View attachment 26462Here's my BBK performance, cloudy day
View attachment 26463
When I put wider tires on my car, the stopping distance was slightly worse. I surmise the calipers and pads were not good enough to handle the extra weight of the wider tires - that was why I returned the tires and put back stock size.
Have also used stock fluid as well as Pentosin fluid.
In any case, I won't be taking your example here to apply universally as every person and car is slightly different. I don't know your environs, the drivers you deal with, the terrain, the condition of your braking systems, your modifications... I only know my own set up and the history of the stock brake system performance as it changed over those three different rotors and pads. I do agree the stock pads have the best grip over all the other pads, so pads are not a big deal to upgrade unless you want less dust or something like this.
You are lucky to have a stock brake system that outperforms Big Brake kits like Brembo or Prodigywerks. I have never ever heard of anyone who has had your experience.
My e93 is 400 lbs. heavier than the coupe and you can definitely feel the brakes struggle in emergencies.
Fade is a major concern for me also. Not a fan of the squooshy brakes during logging sessions.
All i know is, I slammed on the brakes the other day to avoid collision and the car kept going... no skids, no ABS...simply kept going. Plenty of pad left, new fluid. Pedal was slammed to the floor as hard as I could. On BBK cars I have driven, you slam the brakes, you get whiplash...
Yes, tires are very important. However, I measured 20 ft. of difference between a stock setup vs. brembo upgrade on the same car at 45 mph. You can send all the data pics you want, but that ain't gonna change this experience. Same car, same tires.
M cars typically have better tires. Also drilled rotors look great, but are arguably not the best choice for serious driving... but lets not argue about this as well.
I would still claim, if the cold ABS-activated braking distance was shortened, it was because you had better grip. If you have problems with brakes overheating, you need different pads + fluid.
Here's data to support my claim. Below you will find a comparison between my 100% stock brakes and my current BBK kit. Same tires (AD08R), just 3 months older on the BBK run.
Here's my OEM performance, sunny day
View attachment 26462Here's my BBK performance, cloudy day
View attachment 26463
Suppose you could install stock 335i brakes on an M car with bigger tires (which you cannot do)... you really think that the stock 335i brakes would perform the same as the big brakes on the M car with the same tires?
Of course not.
So far performance of the EVO 3 is excellent both in city and freeway driving. The car throttle response is adapting nicely and getting smoother by the day. No pops, no weird huffing and puffing... under wot, car is stable and strong.
Temperatures for oil are same. Coolant is few degrees higher but decreases if on highway to pre-upgrade temps.
The exhaust note is a little lower and bassy. The hood air noise is more audible. The turbo also more audible and the BOV response is very fine and exact to pedal input.
During heat soak tests, I got the IAT in traffic to go to 120ºF and when I started to drive, within 1.5 minutes the temps went down to 90ºF with ambient temperature of 80ºF. Speed was 40 to 65 mph. Each and every time I accelerate, there is a slight temperature dip of 2 degrees then back to normal in 30 seconds.
Temperatures for oil are same. Coolant is few degrees higher but decreases if on highway to pre-upgrade temps.
The exhaust note is a little lower and bassy. The hood air noise is more audible. The turbo also more audible and the BOV response is very fine and exact to pedal input.
During heat soak tests, I got the IAT in traffic to go to 120ºF and when I started to drive, within 1.5 minutes the temps went down to 90ºF with ambient temperature of 80ºF. Speed was 40 to 65 mph. Each and every time I accelerate, there is a slight temperature dip of 2 degrees then back to normal in 30 seconds.
20 feet difference from only 45 mph is enormous. And clearly there's a problem with your ABS. Something isn't right with your set-up!
Perhaps glazed pads or brake fluid that needs to be flushed/upgraded.
Neil
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