Perhaps. We shall see. No more armchair guesses. Install, do testing and report. That is the way.
Wagner Evo 3 Intercooler Review Coming Soon
- Thread starter matreyia
- Start date
Perhaps. We shall see. No more armchair guesses. Install, do testing and report. That is the way.
Initial stopping distance would be exactly the same, even if you put 320i brakes on an otherwise stock M car.
I agree with @MDORPHN that something isn't right with your brakes.
If your pedal gets smooshy or hits the floor before ABS activates, I would say you have a brake fluid-related problem. Normally if it is a pad problem, you can't push the pedal all the way to the floor.
My stock brake system doesn't out perform my current brakes or vice versa. I just experienced slightly different levels of grip, as you do depending on weather, road conditions etc.
I can guarantee that your stock brakes would feel mushy after a few hard stops as compared to bbk. And NO, the pedal on my car does not touch the floor when mashing the brakes. ABS works fine in the rain. Pedal is firm.
You guys are focused on initial braking distance...folly. you don't judge brakes by initial distance since you almost never use your brakes once or twice. You should really measure repeated hard braking where a bbk outshines stock brakes. Go ahead, measure your distance on stocks 10x hard and you will see your distance increase considerably and then upgrade to bbk and do the same thing on same tires and you will see BARELY increase in distance.
Again, I will rely on BBK for repeated hard braking power over stock any day. Especially in a city fill of druvers that act like they are all in racecars and who act like they have never seen rainfall each time it rains. Good luck with that.
I focused on initial braking distance because that was the scenario you presented. If you have to do repeated emergency braking on the street, then your problem is not your braking system.
On track you can get surprisingly far with OEM brakes as long as you upgrade the brake fluid and use properly bedded race pads. I really recommend you try that first. On the other hand, if you use street or sport pads with a BBK kit, brake performance will still decrease after only a few laps on track.
If your pedal feels mushy, it is because of your brake fluid. You will experience the same problem with a BBK if you use the wrong brake fluid, or if you do not bleed/change it often enough.
I focused on initial braking distance because that was the scenario you presented. If you have to do repeated emergency braking on the street, then your problem is not your braking system.
Wait, you mean it's not normal to do so many repeated hard stops on the street that you're getting brake fade and need a BBK?
Disagree. Proper approach would have been to figure out what was wrong with your stock system and repair it!
Of course, the BBK will be superior than what you presently have because it's not working properly.
My advice would have been to repair your stock set-up, run proper pads and brake fluid, and do some HPDEs on track to ensure you have proper braking technique.
Neil
I focused on initial braking distance because that was the scenario you presented. If you have to do repeated emergency braking on the street, then your problem is not your braking system.
On track you can get surprisingly far with OEM brakes as long as you upgrade the brake fluid and use properly bedded race pads. I really recommend you try that first. On the other hand, if you use street or sport pads with a BBK kit, brake performance will still decrease after only a few laps on track.
If your pedal feels mushy, it is because of your brake fluid. You will experience the same problem with a BBK if you use the wrong brake fluid, or if you do not bleed/change it often enough.
You think I was braking in the emergency situation with 'initial braking' ?
Are we all clear now?
1. A proper BBK with proper fluid and recommended pads will always outperform the stock brakes on the 335i. There is no arguing about this. Forget about it.
2. Eventually, even with properly matched fluids and pad, ANY brake kit will begin to fade over extended harsh conditions. But a BBK will outlast a stock set up under those conditions. This also is not debatable.
So if you guys are happy with your stock setup, good for you. But don't tell me that your stock brakes will outlast and outperform a BBK that proper and from a respectable brand. I have seen first hand the differences and I have drive too many cars with both set ups to naively think that any stock setup is going to compare to an upgraded BBK.
And yes, I will do a before and after comparison when I upgrade so you guys can see any improvements. No data charts, just plain old visual recording at 45 or 50 mph repeated hard stops.
If you are in constant stop and go traffic such as in Houston and you have to accelerate out of the way due to some person on the phone almost hitting you... you had better hope your brakes are not faded. BBK kit may not eliminate this possibility, but it does minimize it massively.
I've owned everything from a 1600 Alpina to a 1M, and driven countless other models on street and track. I've never driven one that wasn't capable of stop-and-go driving on the street! Whatever you were experiencing, it wasn't fade unless something was terribly wrong with your braking system.
OK, I'm done with this thread.
Neil
OK, I'm done with this thread.
Neil
"I've never driven one that wasn't capable of stop-and-go driving on the street! "
Neither have I Niel. But that's not what was said. Don't any of you guys know how to ask questions? Obviously the brakes worked fine under stop and go traffic and if it was all that it was I'd be fine. Hours of stop and go and add on 490 whp instantly to 80mph and then slam on the brakes hard...that's a different story. Why don't you go try this... drive in stop and go for an hour, then slam on your accelerator pedal and get to 80 mph, then slam on your brakes... and see how far it takes you to stop. Be good if you could record it too. Now imagine that you are on a hill, and you have to get out of the way and you cannot see what is over that hill...but suddenly after you are out of the way you are at 80mph and there is a car that is stopped behind a row of cars in traffic... good luck with that.
Neither have I Niel. But that's not what was said. Don't any of you guys know how to ask questions? Obviously the brakes worked fine under stop and go traffic and if it was all that it was I'd be fine. Hours of stop and go and add on 490 whp instantly to 80mph and then slam on the brakes hard...that's a different story. Why don't you go try this... drive in stop and go for an hour, then slam on your accelerator pedal and get to 80 mph, then slam on your brakes... and see how far it takes you to stop. Be good if you could record it too. Now imagine that you are on a hill, and you have to get out of the way and you cannot see what is over that hill...but suddenly after you are out of the way you are at 80mph and there is a car that is stopped behind a row of cars in traffic... good luck with that.
Air in brakes could be a culprit. Air is compressible, brake fluid is not. Should always be the first thing you check especially since you mention "pedal was slammed to the floor" and "new fluid". This comes from someone who designs brake systems. But judging by your responses to others it seems like you're sticking to your own conclusion. If you get this problem with BBK keep this in mind I guess.
I think you need to change your driving style. Sounds dangerous.
I don't drive like that. did you even read the post correctly? This was an explanation on what happened and why there was a need to accelerate and stop suddenly. Yeah...sounds dangerous...BECAUSE IT IS....VERY DANGEROUS.
Pedal was firm, not mushy. Slammed to the floor means that is how much force and intent I had...it never touched the floor in reality.
Save yourself some money and get the Wagner unit. You might think the vrsf is cheaper but in the end after you spend time installing and headaches repacking to send it back due to fitment issues... you would have doubled your cost. The Wagner unit has been flawless since day 1.
Be aware that there may be added lag due to the huge size of the unit. But that is the trade off for absurdly cool IAT's.
It doesn't help my cause that I have Pure Stage 2 HiFlos which are also known to have lag. If you have vtt units there may not be any issue with lag.
You’re making me nervous! Have you seen posts about fitment issues with the vrsf race? My friend didn’t have issues but he bought his a few years ago. The other posts and videos I found are also older, but didn’t point out fitment issues. So I purchased one last week.
Still sitting in the box and am getting cold feet now lol. Have you seen issues with more recently purchased vrsf race units?
With a bit of work, you can make anything fit. But the design of the vrsf is not the same as Wagner and will have heat buildup after a while. The Wagner has never had an issue. It surpassed my old Dinan unit by leaps and bounds in terms of consistent Temps.
I have misgivings about vrsf because I saw first hand, you get what you pay for. Simple down pipes had reverse threads that destroyed new o2 sensors upon install. So no more vrsf for me. If they can't get threads right then they won't be able to build a dependable intercooler imo. It may work but it will not be close to Wagner.
If you got no budget then go for it.
Ok cool. I feel a little better.
I am aware of many of their things not being of decent quality and fitment, which is why I own none of them haha.
I am not a fan of spending my money on something that requires more than the expected work to get it to fit; such as cutting the shroud. I was ok with this intercooler since I have personally seen the fitment, which was good, and tried to keep my opinions of their other items separate from this purchase. Hopefully it doesn’t bite me in the end.
FWIW, I have also seen minor fitment challenges on the Wagner evo3 from AndyW’s thread on his 135i. Wouldn’t stop me from getting it though.
I know they are different cores but I couldn’t find any information showing a performance advantage from an iat standpoint. I know the evo3 is a little lighter which is great, but not enough for me to spend the extra money.
I will post back once it’s installed in case it helps anyone else
I am aware of many of their things not being of decent quality and fitment, which is why I own none of them haha.
I am not a fan of spending my money on something that requires more than the expected work to get it to fit; such as cutting the shroud. I was ok with this intercooler since I have personally seen the fitment, which was good, and tried to keep my opinions of their other items separate from this purchase. Hopefully it doesn’t bite me in the end.
FWIW, I have also seen minor fitment challenges on the Wagner evo3 from AndyW’s thread on his 135i. Wouldn’t stop me from getting it though.
I know they are different cores but I couldn’t find any information showing a performance advantage from an iat standpoint. I know the evo3 is a little lighter which is great, but not enough for me to spend the extra money.
I will post back once it’s installed in case it helps anyone else
Installed a csf awhile back in my car and definitely had to cut some plastic. Wear safety glasses.
Be advised, Wagner evo 3 will require cutting as it is super-sized. But I imagine the vrsf cutting and fitment will be worse.
Thanks. Yeah I was expecting the cutting based on all of my research. I pretty much used the template that’s included with the evo3.
I have the hard part done. Fitment is great so this is one of the vrsf products that is great from that stand point.
Hoping the iat control is just as good.
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