Would anyone like to see the bomb 'Frankenturbo' Creator is making?

[bantam]

Doug refers to air being compressed in the tank making room for a pint (1/2 liter) of fuel. He also refers to a bladder, which should prevent air from entering the fuel lines.

You can see from the picture that it appears to be a Parker Bladder Accumulator which was designed for hydraulic applications. So the tank fills with fuel, the bladder is filled with nitrogen, which compresses as the pressure rises, effectively adding capacitance to the system.

From reviewing parker's product lineup, my primary concerns would be temperature and material compatibility for the bladder/seals.

https://www.hydraulicspneumatics.co...tors/Article/False/6446/TechZone-Accumulators

In theory, it's not a terrible idea if you design the system appropriately.

 

[silverstreak18]

I find it funny that he didn't just think of it, he ACTUALLY built this crazy system lol. Props just for trying even if it is a little nuts.

 

[doublespaces]

There is no such thing as reserve for pressurized fuel. Liquids don't share all of the same characteristics as gasses, outside of flow (generally speaking).

I suppose there is better terminology. The fuel rail does get pressurized with fuel and if the hpfp pressure dips, it will take a moment for the fuel in the rail to "equalize" with the hpfp circuit due to the restriction, the same one that Vargas asks you to drill out, but not to drill too much.

This was merely a guess as to how this part of the system is working of course. When considering the non-compressibility of liquids like water then this would be incorrect.

 

[JuniorB]

Accually, this is a brilliant idea. An accumulator would be an excellent option if there was one small enough to use, and to keep out of sight. Someone that's never heard of this, is the one who thinks this is a bomb.

 

[NoQuarter]

@fredcase thanks for the posts!

That took some effort to grab the snips and post.

 

[boostE92d]

He seems to be on a quest to make our cars rare. I support this effort, as long as no one gets hurt. Obviously.

 

[veer90]

about sums up my reaction to this thread. good lord

 

[V8bait]

If it's an accumulator then maybe. But it's a bandaid solution that doesn't address the issue for more than a few seconds. 8 seconds is a stretch, just because you can hold a pint doesn't mean you get a pint of use, the pressure will only hold up for 1/4 that volume before it's down to 1200psi again. But sure it'll work. Thought he was just adding a tank lol.

 

[Optigrab]

If it's an accumulator then maybe. But it's a bandaid solution that doesn't address the issue for more than a few seconds. 8 seconds is a stretch, just because you can hold a pint doesn't mean you get a pint of use, the pressure will only hold up for 1/4 that volume before it's down to 1200psi again. But sure it'll work. Thought he was just adding a tank lol.

Oh you are a glass is half empty kind of guy
I bet when his lightweight hardwood intake manifold w TBI comes to market. You will not like it either lol

 

[ShocknAwe]

Oh you are a glass is half empty kind of guy
I bet when his lightweight hardwood intake manifold w TBI comes to market. You will not like it either lol

Wood. Lol. Guys, this is mad science stuff. Sounds crazy but it works. Lol.

 

[Rob09msport]

I'm designing a latex balloon charge pipe with a solenoid to store boost

 

[iminhell1]

pretty neat idea really. hydraulic theory in practical use, i like it.

 

[Lurcher]

When Boyle's Law referenced gas, it wasn't gasoline.

Filippo

I see what you did there....

 

[Terry@BMS]

Nice to see people thinking out of the box, I like the balloon at the end of the fuel rail idea.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

These accumulators are commonplace in automotive ABS systems since the eighties, a similar design for hydro-boost power brakes. Eventually the Nitrogen will leak past out and they just go "limp". There's a guy who refills them for some old obscure Audi applications where you can't get them anymore. I had talked with him about refilling a Teves unit from a Ford product a few years ago and he was willing. I've never heard of one exploding, leaking, and or causing a fire. If you crash a vehicle hard enough to burst this heavy walled bulb then the crash cause the fire and sucks to be you. Plumbing would be the weakest link, I would want that shut-off valve to be mounted as close to the bulb as possible and be wired to seal instantly in the even of a significant crash. I like it, I had almost the same idea in the nineties for the Ford Thunderbird SC. They had a low pressure fuel system (43.5 above intake pressure) and the rail that snaked around the supercharger was small diameter tubing. The small diameter and layout meant it could only support approx. 550-600 HP before certain injectors would start starving for fuel delivery. I had the idea of using a previously mentioned oil accumulator plumbed into the far side of the rail to supplement the pump just like this. The pressure range and fluid compatibility was the same and they come in many volumes. At the time I stopped into Corky Bell's shop and discussed it with him. He thought it was good theory and deserved to be investigated as a solution to this problem. I was raising three kids back then and didn't make as much money so that's as far as I got. All this has to do is supplement existing fuel delivery, so six seconds is all by itself at 600 HP if I understand correctly, I'm curious how long it would help at WOT and 600HP in use.

 

[dyezak]

A 3000psi 1qt accumulator? Huh, didn't know such a thing existed.

 

[Rob09msport]

The problem is triggering and controlling this properly, which if we set up a controller with multiple inputs so that it wont dump pressure when rail pressure drops at low loads by design, then we might as well just use an electric auxiliary pump and forget all this bs. I think the n55 would be way simpler as rail pressure follows rpm and that's it.

 

[gorspeed]

This went from absolutely insane to plausible, at a moments notice.

 

[MoreBoost]

I expect that like me he actually saw this setup and thought about adapting it for the fuel lines instead of just methanol injection.

link

The thing is why not just use a bigger fuel rail with the existing system or is that going to be too small?
The other thing is the costs look to be getting close to something like the shotgun setup or port injection so seems a bit of a wasted effort.
Plus, imagine having this on your car when some inexperienced mechanic does some work on your car and it ruptures and probably ignites.
3000 psi of gasoline will be spectacular.

What we need is either a better hpfp that can shift more volume or a cheaper way of running 2 of them than what is already available.

 

[gorspeed]

I expect that like me he actually saw this setup and thought about adapting it for the fuel lines instead of just methanol injection.

link

The thing is why not just use a bigger fuel rail with the existing system or is that going to be too small?
The other thing is the costs look to be getting close to something like the shotgun setup or port injection so seems a bit of a wasted effort.
Plus, imagine having this on your car when some inexperienced mechanic does some work on your car and it ruptures and probably ignites.
3000 psi of gasoline will be spectacular.

What we need is either a better hpfp that can shift more volume or a cheaper way of running 2 of them than what is already available.

I'm not getting my hopes up on a new HPFP that flows more, even the diesel guys run a belt driven CP3.