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Single Turbo flash only PID control

Discussion in 'Advanced Tuning | Coding' started by [email protected], Nov 23, 2016.

  1. CKI@Motiv

    [email protected] Specialist Vendor

    I posted this on Facebook and it seems more people are interested behind the scenes with PM's and messages than posting public. So ill spill the beans.

    With the partial beta release of Motiv's BoostBox and newer compact production units on the way. I have been messing with calibrating WGDC PID to make tuning as simple and accurate as can be. After over 60 revisions i have successfully re-calibrated the PID algorithm over to Single turbo flash only boost control. This was a complete recal of everything including axis changes that better suit the ST system due to positive pressure vs negative pressure wastegates, WG springs, Back pressure, EGT, system configurations and the biggest factor being the change from the factory 300hz solenoids to the Mac valve operating 20-80hz range.

    This will retain all existing WGDC tables including and work in conjunction with:
    -WGDC base (with custom logic Axis changes compliments of @jyamona)
    -WGDC spool
    -Spool max RPM
    -Spool fuel
    -Spool timing
    -Spool intake/exhaust VANOS
    -Some new much needed additional spool tables that will eventually make future public release.

    So it'll all be in harmony just like stock boost control and retain all associated safety's

    This PID calibration will be included in all Motiv ST Flash only tunes.

    Heres some pictures
    I purposely made a random base WGDC table to see how PID would respond to extreme changes.
    100% WGDC during spool and shift recovery, full control of a minimum + or - 15% WGDC error
    correction. Some of the smoothest most consistent ST boost /load target.

    PID1.jpg PID3.jpg PID4.png PID5.jpg PID6.png
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
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  2. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    2009 E93 335i
    Anyone with a single turbo may purchase a motiv tune with this implemented, correct? And when will the box be available?
  3. CKI@Motiv

    [email protected] Specialist Vendor

    Yeah, any xdf changes will be public like it's always been. Jake H and I have just partnered up to take on the task of tuning the PID. Anyone can do it if they wish to take it on.
    This was to show what's to come and the advancements of ST boost control. It's one of those things that people ask a lot about and there isn't much info out there.
    No eta on the production units, let's get all these holiday's out of the way first.
  4. brecken

    brecken Private

    Awesome work Chris! I will definitely be upgraded to this when it is officially released
  5. Amazing work Chris! I get your O2 sensors in Friday. This weekend should be the moment of truth!!!
  6. 08_335i

    08_335i Sergeant

    2008 ST 335i
    Finally. MHD runs the car so much smoother then a jb4 backend through MHD. Can't wait to be able to run full MHD while using JB4 to just control meth\logging.
  7. Abacus38

    Abacus38 Sergeant

    Tampa/Orlando, FL
    2007 Ti Ag 335i
    Awesome! In my own experience flash only control is so much smooth then the jb4 BEF method. With the ability to control mac solenoids there's really isn't reason to run the jb4 over MHD
  8. Bigdaddyaaron

    Bigdaddyaaron Corporal

    I'm not quite clear on whether or not we will need the boost box to make use of these pid developments? If not, I'll be buying a motiv ST tune today
  9. V8bait

    V8bait Sergeant

    I think you're a little backwards, the boost box enables the DME to control a Mac solenoid natively by translating the signal, the PID developments are more of a complete remap of the OEM PID tables to work with the more conventional control scheme as opposed to vacuum gates, so if you get this without a motiv tune you'll have to spend a good bit of time developing them yourself unless they release base tables as part of the product, in which case you'd just fine tune them to your particular turbo setup.
  10. 135Pats

    135Pats Private

    I don't want to speak for Chris or the MOTIV team but 99% sure you'll need a boost box; otherwise you'll have a mac solenoid operating at a different frequency and it won't be able to 'talk' properly with the DME

    FWIW I've had the boost box on my car for about 500 miles now. Have *literally* yet to experience a limp mode or SES light for any reason in that timeframe. Obviously a lot goes into that, but anecdotally I think it gives a sense for how promising this is. Huge credit to Chris and MOTIV.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  11. CKI@Motiv

    [email protected] Specialist Vendor

    The Boostbox is a separate entity. It just allows the the Mac valve (30hz) to be control by the DME (300hz). It doesnt manipulate or actually control anything. The DME has 100% control of everything.

    This is correct thank you.

    First off thank you for the kind words.

    Secondly your correct. The Boostbox is/will be public for anyone to purchase. You can tune with it however you want. Whether you go with a custom tune, do it yourself, or whatever. The PID control which works just like OEM and any other flash only tunes but optimized for Single turbos. Which is very different than the OEM method of controlling boost. That portion will be Motiv specific and available on all custom Motiv tunes. The PID will compensate for every external variable condition. Everything from exhaust temp, to altitude changes and changes in IAT. It makes power very consistent everytime, all the time along with every DME safety still intact.
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  12. Abacus38

    Abacus38 Sergeant

    Tampa/Orlando, FL
    2007 Ti Ag 335i
    Makes sense. You need to monopolize on what you can before somebody can replicate it.
  13. Very cool, nice job.
  14. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    2009 E93 335i
  15. CKI@Motiv

    [email protected] Specialist Vendor

    Nothing until after the holidays. Some big changes happening all over. Just trying to get it all sorted out at the moment.
  16. R.G.

    R.G. Sergeant

    Henderson, NV
    E92 N54, F02 N54
    Chris is the fucking man

    That is all.
  17. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    2009 E93 335i
    Sure is, and he'd be more of THE fucking man if he'd send me one of those boostboxes I know he's got laying around :) :)

    I'm trying to do write ups and shit over here!
  18. 08_335i

    08_335i Sergeant

    2008 ST 335i
    I really can't wait for this. So exciting. Great job guys, really.
  19. CKI@Motiv

    [email protected] Specialist Vendor

    I have a very early Rev one. A lot of changes to the latest which I don't have a single one of. So nothing just laying around.
  20. doublespaces

    doublespaces Administrator

    2009 E93 335i
    I'm a salesman, you don't get if you don't ask so I had to try.