Technical "SOLUTION" First serious issue since 9 years, I need some advice

[wooboodoo]

Hey folks,
I usually don't bother people but I'm trying to find solutions myself and this time I need your help...
Last week my 535 went into limb mode during cruising on the highway and the journey begins or maybe I should say nightmare.
Next morning I couldn't start the engine, when I finally did it jerks as hell and went into limp mode right away.
I got a bunch of codes fuel related and everything pointed to failing hpfp so I just ordered a brand new Magneti Marelli from ECS, installed it and everything was kind of ok for 2 days.
I can't even get a log because it cut me off at 3K rpms...
What I've realized cruising around and looking at the live data that when I accelerate the pressure goes over 2k psi then goes into limb and drops pressure to less than 100 psi wth is going on?

Here is a log when I tried to do a pull but I couldn't:

datazap.me | wooboodoo | Log 1706320696

datazap.me

Here is 2 minutes after that when reset the limb mode and was just cruising around with some small engine load{

datazap.me | wooboodoo | cruising log

datazap.me

Here are current codes:

DME active codes - 29DC - DME: Cylinder injection cutout.

29E0 - DME: Mixture control.

29E1 - DME: Mixture control 2.

29F2 - DME: Fuel high-pressure system, fuel pressure.

2B2C - Fuel high pressure, plausibility, cold start.

30FF - DME: Turbocharger, charge-air pressure too low.

- DME shadow (inactive) codes - 2FCA Fuel high pressure bei Freigabe der Einspritzung

2FDA Fuel high pressure bei oder nach Freigabe der Einspritzung (2.

Umweltbedingungssatz nach Zeitverzögerung)

2FDB Fuel high pressure nach Freigabe der Einspritzung



Codes from yesterday:



1/26/2024 7:46:00 PM

- DME active codes - 29DC - DME: Cylinder injection cutout.

29E0 - DME: Mixture control.

29E1 - DME: Mixture control 2.

29F2 - DME: Fuel high-pressure system, fuel pressure.

2B2C - Fuel high pressure, plausibility, cold start.

- DME shadow (inactive) codes - 2FCA Fuel high pressure bei Freigabe der Einspritzung

2FDA Fuel high pressure bei oder nach Freigabe der Einspritzung (2.

Umweltbedingungssatz nach Zeitverzögerung)

2FDB Fuel high pressure nach Freigabe der Einspritzung

1/26/2024 7:00:18 PM

- DME active codes - 29DC - DME: Cylinder injection cutout.

29E0 - DME: Mixture control.

29E1 - DME: Mixture control 2.

29F2 - DME: Fuel high-pressure system, fuel pressure.

2B2C - Fuel high pressure, plausibility, cold start.

- DME shadow (inactive) codes - 2FCA Fuel high pressure bei Freigabe der Einspritzung

2FDA Fuel high pressure bei oder nach Freigabe der Einspritzung (2.

Umweltbedingungssatz nach Zeitverzögerung)

2FDB Fuel high pressure nach Freigabe der Einspritzung

I would highly appreciate if someone could take a look and point me some direction, can a bad injector cause all that mess? I've replaced these a few years ago for the index 12.


Thanks in advance,
Mark

 

[Paarma78]

I had pretty similar situation last summer. Car first started misfiring cylinder 2. I was track driving. Cleared codes while driving, came staright back. Limped to pits. I cleared the codes again, started and it was really rough. After while idling, I smelled fuel. After that did not even start as no fuel pressure. At first we thought that it was tha LPFP, but turned out to be fully open injector (cylinder 2). I replaced this and all good (and changed the oil + filter as it must have leaked trhough the cylinder to oil), all good. So my injector started leaking and finally was fully stuck open.

I guess you could have similar situation. Did you have originally any misfires? Could indicate the leaking injector.

 

[wooboodoo]

I didn't noticed misfire but I did smell abit gas lastly so it may be injector, how you diagnosed which one is leaking? I see people removing spark plugs and check which one is wet but is there any other legit way to diagnose bad injector?

thanks

 

[Paarma78]

As the misfire was cylinder 2 we just pulled out the injector and tested. It was totally leaking. I guess this could have be seen by removing spark plug and cheking. This would have sprayed all over when cranking, but it would be a bit risky as the fuel (50% E) would flush the cylinder. So removing and testing is the safest if suspecting injectors leaking heavily. In your case maybe you need to remove and test them all...

 

[Paarma78]

And we checked the piston after removing the spark plug. Looked the same as other which we removed. So therefore we just removed the injector and verified the leak.

 

[Coupes66]

In your "pull" log, as soon as you begin accelerating the LPFP drops pressure to 32psi while the HPFP being starved of fuel drops to 60psi. The AFRs throughout the log are engine destroying lean in the 30s. In the "cruising" log the lpfp and hpfp are reading correctly and so are the AFRs. So why under acceleration is the LPFP being starved of fuel. How much fuel was in your tank? What LPFP are you running? Is there an issue with the suction on the LPFP? I would be looking at the LPFP area as it shouldn't drop below 70psi regardless of what you are doing.

 

[wheela]

I agree with @Coupes66 on the low pressure fuel side. Don't forget to look at the low fuel pressure regulator, those can go bad too.

 

[ShocknAwe]

EKP? I agree with thoughts on LPFP side.

 

[wooboodoo]

Guys first of all thank you very much for your advice !
today I was able to get low and high pressure sensors in the local North Side Imports but unfortunately they only had one decoupling in stock and zero injector seals so I've ordered these from FCP and hopefully willing to get them by Tuesday.
First thing in the morning I've reset some adaptations like throttle, fuel etc and the engine definitely didn't like it and it was jerking really bad and the engine got stuck jumping rpms 1500-1800 with no reaction on the acceleration. I turned the engine on and off a couple of times and eventually it was an acceptable idling but a few codes tranny related popped at the dash... however I decided to cruise around and it wasn't that bad, car was slightly jerky at the bottoms and slow speed but drives ok at 60-70 mph. Afternoon I've replaced the low pressure sensor and just after that I did a test drive, it feels great I was able to wot with no issue but at the same time I couldn't believe that I won. I let the car cool down a couple of hours and tried again, just after engine start limb mode again, I repeat on and off like 5 times and everything got back to normal again so I could drive the car. At least I've figured out how to play her game as of now.
@Coupes66 I have about 3/4 fuel in the tank, the LPFP is bosch from FCP about 4 years old when I though that oem went bad but it turned out that was bad EKP. I don't think so there's any issue with the suction but can't warranty it.
@ShocknAwe of course it could be a EKP but since I fried one already I can tell that I had opposite symptoms, car was perfect when EKP was cold and I couldn't drive it after 15 minutes at all till it cools down but I'll keep this in my mind.
If this is LPFP I can replace it under warranty or just buy walbro and try to install it in the bucket but don't really know which one to get, the 450 LPH?
5 series is sucks and is pita to upgrade lpfp as long as I know, the fuel-it option is worth more than my whole car lmao so ill not go this route.

Let see how this gonna end up...

 

[wooboodoo]

Small update, since I don't want to drop the thread it may help someone else, who knows...
Tuesday evening I've checked all injectors and these are perfect, absolutely no leaks.

One more thing I did Tuesday was high pressure sensor and that was last part fuel related under the hood...

I found some info that every time we touch injectors we have to replace decouplers, really? I did replaced these because I bought set already but I couldn't find any difference between 5 year old and brand new so I think is some b/s. (2 old on the left, 1 new on the right).

Ok getting back to the issues, with new high pressure sensor engine started fine (slightly long crank) no jerking, rpm jumping etc. smooth idling fine but I left the car for cold morning start to see what gonna happen. In the morning I started the engine (again slightly long crank) with no issues, everything was great so I took the car for short ride in the city and miracle, car feels kind of ok, I've reflashed everything back to stock, MHD, xHP and xDelete so obviously I felt difference but engine seems to work fine.
Fine in the city yesterday and today but in the evening I took the car for some highway conditions and unfortunately it went into limb mode again. What I've learned it happens when I accelerate on higher gear, even if I try to do this smooth engine jerks a few times and ass. Interesting is fact that no check engine light this time only limb mode symbol in lower display.

The last thing I'll do this Saturday is LPFP upgrade to 535LPH and new fuel filter, fingers crossed.

 

[wooboodoo]

Another update...
I've replaced the LPFP Friday afternoon and everything was ok, engine started nice, idle ok so I took the car on the highway... 15 minutes later engine died at 60 mph. I pulled over and couldn't believe this really happened. I still had tools in my trunk so I took the left side (filter cover) off to see if lpfp works good. I've disconnected the hose from the lpfp to the filter and switched on ignition, pump worked fine so I put everything back together and attempted to start the engine... started with no issue, in this moment I knew already that my EKP is too weak to run Welbro 535 LPH. On my way back home car died 2 miles before the target so I had to wait another 20 minutes to eventually get back home. Since ET3 Design selling their upgraded EKP modules on amazon I ordered one and received it today, an hour later was installed and coded to the car.

Test ride and still similar shit! Under some load limp mode and jerky engine similar to misfire.

I've replaced so far:

HPFP
Low pressure sensor
High pressure sensor
LPFP
EKP
Fuel filter (just in case)
Injectors checked and no leaks.

Here is pic of pressures at cold start from today:

here is at idle:

The only code:

I tried to do some log and neither isn't good but I think is enough to see some sketchy shit, the HPFP for no reason drops the pressure while LPFP is suppling it at over 80psi !
I run out of ideas for this issue.

Here is the log from today:

datazap.me | wooboodoo | Sunday 04

datazap.me

Should I contact ECS, is this possible that they sent defective HPFP?

 

[ShocknAwe]

Is it changing fuel mode when this happens?

 

[wooboodoo]

Is it changing fuel mode when this happens?

I don't think so, I'm back at Stage 0, stock maps to figure out what's going on. Do you think it matters even if I run 19T D4, 2" inlets, and bigger outlets?

 

[ShocknAwe]

I don't think so, I'm back at Stage 0, stock maps to figure out what's going on. Do you think it matters even if I run 19T D4, 2" inlets, and bigger outlets?

I'd go back to your last stable map for troubleshooting.

 

[wooboodoo]

I'd go back to your last stable map for troubleshooting.

I had custom tune from Ken when I was rolling on frankenturbos but June 2022 I switched to 19's and upgraded inlets and outlets then flashed MHD v9 stage 1+ 93oct_98ron it was temporarily flash but I liked the car so never got back to Ken... I've heard opinions that v7 is most reliable version so maybe I should try it instead. Thanks for your time, I'll try and post the result.

 

[SLOWESTN54]

I had custom tune from Ken when I was rolling on frankenturbos but June 2022 I switched to 19's and upgraded inlets and outlets then flashed MHD v9 stage 1+ 93oct_98ron it was temporarily flash but I liked the car so never got back to Ken... I've heard opinions that v7 is most reliable version so maybe I should try it instead. Thanks for your time, I'll try and post the result.

19t's on a ots tune is a recipe for disaster, Also at no point should your rail pressure be lower then you lpfp. I say dud new hpfp. I think your issue might have been something else before, but the hpfp you have in currently is faulty for sure, Try putting back in the original one that came out of the car.

 

[Coupes66]

Looking at that log, during the first part of the log the LPFP pressure is erratic while the HPFP is 700+psi which is ok. Then the HPFP drops its pressure down to 100psi and the LPFP goes more erratic fluctuating between 120psi down to 35psi. The LPFP should maintain its pressure at 70+psi regardless at what is happening with the HPFP or engine. The AFRs are not showing a rich mixture and in fact, the Bank 1 AFR peaks for a moment at 45 which is super lean but the Bank 2 AFR doesn't. What is causing the LPFP to fluctuate the pressure is the issue. It is as if some valve is openning and closing allowing fuel back into the tank.

 

[wooboodoo]

Looking at that log, during the first part of the log the LPFP pressure is erratic while the HPFP is 700+psi which is ok. Then the HPFP drops its pressure down to 100psi and the LPFP goes more erratic fluctuating between 120psi down to 35psi. The LPFP should maintain its pressure at 70+psi regardless at what is happening with the HPFP or engine. The AFRs are not showing a rich mixture and in fact, the Bank 1 AFR peaks for a moment at 45 which is super lean but the Bank 2 AFR doesn't. What is causing the LPFP to fluctuate the pressure is the issue. It is as if some valve is openning and closing allowing fuel back into the tank.

As long as I know the only valve which could release pressure is located in the fuel filter enclosure, at least in 5 series 2008-10 It was one of the reasons I replaced the filter because I thought it may be something wrong with the pressure valve. Today when I was trying to get some log except the 29DC code I got some bonus... 29F3 - Fuel low-pressure sensor, electric. idk but this is crazy

19t's on a ots tune is a recipe for disaster, Also at no point should your rail pressure be lower then you lpfp. I say dud new hpfp. I think your issue might have been something else before, but the hpfp you have in currently is faulty for sure, Try putting back in the original one that came out of the car.

I've ordered brand new hpfp today but this time OE, it should be here tomorrow afternoon so well see.
Flashed today v7.1 stage 2 93oct and below is the log... same shit imo

datazap.me | wooboodoo | Monday 05

datazap.me

 

[wooboodoo]

Another update, this time last one...
HPFP arrived later than suppose to but I was determined to swap it asap anyway.

Now I can tell that all my issues was caused by failed HPFP and also brand new Magneti Marelli didn't fix anything because came defective from the factory, wish I knew that this is a roulette I would go with OE the first day.

Here is a log at 3rd gear D mode (is short but I did it in the city)

datazap.me | wooboodoo | D mode

datazap.me

and this one S mode, idk why I did at the second gear but anyway... issues gone !

datazap.me | wooboodoo | S mode

datazap.me

Once again thank you very much for your time guys, I appreciate it very much and if any of you want to custom tune this old lady please lmk because is about time.

Regards,
Mark

 

[ShocknAwe]

Genuine parts are best parts. Time is money and better to do things once. Glad it was easy in the end.