K&P Unboxing & Future Reviews

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JuniorB

Corporal
May 9, 2017
227
Rhode Island
#41
Just an opinion, a high flow filter like this isn't as effective as paper. The screens are just to large to trap all the containments, as you found out. That oil that gotten dirty was passed thru a filter like this. These are widely use in very high pressure/ flow systems, and usually are in a multiple filter sequence. There made to catch the bigger stuff, as far as knowing if there's any non ferrous in the filter, forget it, it's not going to catch it. The fancy magnetic plug won't catch it either, unless it's a chunk of rod,,or a bolt. I'm suprised that with all the fuel injection issues goin on with these engines, that there's no talk about a Blackstone report. This should be done at least with every oil change, it's cheap insurance, and will tell you that your high flowing filter missed some bearings.....lol
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#42
Just an opinion, a high flow filter like this isn't as effective as paper. The screens are just to large to trap all the containments, as you found out. That oil that gotten dirty was passed thru a filter like this. These are widely use in very high pressure/ flow systems, and usually are in a multiple filter sequence. There made to catch the bigger stuff, as far as knowing if there's any non ferrous in the filter, forget it, it's not going to catch it. The fancy magnetic plug won't catch it either, unless it's a chunk of rod,,or a bolt. I'm suprised that with all the fuel injection issues goin on with these engines, that there's no talk about a Blackstone report. This should be done at least with every oil change, it's cheap insurance, and will tell you that your high flowing filter missed some bearings.....lol
There is no doubt non ferrous metals won't get picked up. And agreed on the more effective paper media vs. Metal.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,614
Virginia
#43
I'm suprised that with all the fuel injection issues goin on with these engines, that there's no talk about a Blackstone report. This should be done at least with every oil change, it's cheap insurance, and will tell you that your high flowing filter missed some bearings.....lol
Actually it was discussed on the thread at the top of page 2:
I am not that worried about it. No metal chunks, that's all I care about.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#44
You're right. You didn't say surmise. Here's what you said, @ 1:56 showing how the spring section pushes in, you say, "I can only imagine all kinds of weirdness in terms of the internal oil flow, ummmm, deviation from the way it was designed the stock way."

So let me re-quote my statement, and slightly alter it so we don't confuse the word "surmise" with:" imagine".



Filippo
Are you saying that there should be zero flow deviation from stock vs. CTS even with these 4 very big differences in form factor? I am not asking how the flow is different, I am asking if you think there is or is not deviation from stock functionality due to the form factor difference.

I say obviously the difference in form factor is causing the original function of the stock unit to be altered in regards to flow. HOW does it affect flow is good as anyone's guess. It would be nice to have a BMW n54 oil system expert to ask how.

But hey...if you want to think that four missing big ass protrusions in the CTS unit doesn't matter, then do so. Those 4 protrusions push up against the inner core quite substantially by their lengths and sizes.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,614
Virginia
#45
I'm not making any conjecture relative to what is going on with the CTS cap, spring assembly, and oil flow. As I said, I have no idea - it was your statement in the video that you imagined issues with oil flow. We have a serious communication barrier. I asked you how does the spring assembly effect oil flow per your video comment that you "imagine" it impedes oil flow. I assumed, given all the work you've done, you would have played with that sub-assembly and figured out how what its function is, how it works, and whether it could impede oil flow. I wouldn't have asked, except I actually thought your observations were interesting (relative to the CTS design vs stock). But no worries. I realize in your manner of thinking you believe you've given rational explanations for every decision you've made. I just don't understand them and, honestly, I don't need to. It's your car and your experiment.

I also pointed out that my CTS cap took the plastic assembly snap into place. The cap is 6061 and doesn't flew much, so it takes a pretty good push to get it to snap, but I'm sure you knew that already so I didn't go into why. The stock unit is plastic on plastic, and flexes more easily to snap.

Filippo
 
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Oct 3, 2018
20
#46
For an apples to apples comparison I'd run a paper filter in the cts housing. For an accurate review I think you should at least understand the concept of what is going on vs blindly saying something is different so it's bad. I think the filter is the problem not the filter housing or oil. We don't know for sure until more testing is done...

Even if you don't understand what's going on in there, testing the paper filter in the cts housing would provide unquestionable results for the community, instead of the speculation going on here.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,614
Virginia
#47
I've now disassembled my CTS setup and have inspected the pieces. When I get back home later this morning, I will shoot photos and explain what is going on with the CTS cap and plastic insert. I do understand what's going on, but it will take me 15 minutes to shoot photos and write it up. Later today.

Filippo
 
May 19, 2017
2
#48
Spring assembly is the pressure relief valve. Matreyia, why have you been using a 12 point socket/wrench on the oil filter cap?
 
Oct 28, 2017
818
Monroe CT
#49
I'm sending out a sample of 5w30 biosyn to test for fuel dilution just to make sure as per twisted observation and also I have the k&p and am on second use first was 3k miles Motul max 0w40 this one has 600 miles I believe ,I have to check records but I am very concerned about bearing wear from a crap filter so I will report results asap.
 
Oct 28, 2017
818
Monroe CT
#50
Update: I found that when using the CTS filter cap and the KP stainless oil filter at all speeds in cruise control, my car would oscillate throttle up and down about 30x per minute. The car would speed up and then slow down slightly. On even flat roads.

Now with stock BMW oil filter and filter cap..cruise control is rock solid. No more oscillations at all. Probably related to oil flow deviations also.
Do you have a log cause I would think the parasitic loss from oil flow wouldnt have much if any effect and also and also their isnt any moving parts so whatever change in flow should be static.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,614
Virginia
#51
<deleted this post and rewrote, as it was incorrect - my apologies for getting it wrong.> Updated:

Yes it is an oil relief valve. The factory cap has nubs which keep the cartridge raised. The CTS Turbo does not have that, but the 8 fingers are stand-offs (they have a base) so it seems the cartridge can allow oil up top. If the filter clogs and the pressure rises enough, that spring loaded door would open in either design. They are certainly not identical in design but seem to function similarly. I've added a fifth photo which shows the BMW OE oil cap base.

Filippo

p.s. another member told me oil pressure is high on start and goes through the bypass as well.
 

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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#52
I'm not making any conjecture relative to what is going on with the CTS cap, spring assembly, and oil flow. As I said, I have no idea - it was your statement in the video that you imagined issues with oil flow. We have a serious communication barrier. I asked you how does the spring assembly effect oil flow per your video comment that you "imagine" it impedes oil flow. I assumed, given all the work you've done, you would have played with that sub-assembly and figured out how what its function is, how it works, and whether it could impede oil flow. I wouldn't have asked, except I actually thought your observations were interesting (relative to the CTS design vs stock). But no worries. I realize in your manner of thinking you believe you've given rational explanations for every decision you've made. I just don't understand them and, honestly, I don't need to. It's your car and your experiment.

I also pointed out that my CTS cap took the plastic assembly snap into place. The cap is 6061 and doesn't flew much, so it takes a pretty good push to get it to snap, but I'm sure you knew that already so I didn't go into why. The stock unit is plastic on plastic, and flexes more easily to snap.

Filippo
Look Filippo, you are either not understanding words, or you are projecting your bias, or you are being straight up dishonest. Nowhere in the video do I state that the difference in form factor causes impeded oil flow of any degree.

"Deviation of oil flow from factory design" is NOT the same thing as "impeding". I would appreciate you clarifying yourself.

How the oil flow deviated from factory design is completely a mystery to me...whether it makes it flow faster or slower...I have no idea. But common sense dictates and physical oil metal particles have shown beyond doubt or conjecture that the combination of of the steel filter and the CTS cap absolutely results in abnormal oil metal content from my past oil changes. Nothing has been changed on the car EXCEPT for the CTS cap and KP metal oil filter and motul.

I doubt it is the motul oil that is the issue.

So you pulled it apart and you made all these conclusions based on the fact that the cap is metal and the stock is plastic... and you justify the form factor differences as a function of base material? You discounted BMW design and defended an aftermarket company that makes parts for multiple makes and models....

I disagree with your justifications and defense of them, as history and experience has shown that aftermarket shops that deal with multiple makes and models tend to commit design errors more often than not...no matter their reputation. They think they made a "better" design only to find that they didn't fully understand the original design fully. Take the infamous ECS Tuning n54 light weight pully...they thought lighter was better until people started to destroy their engines after installing the pully which was so light it provided no counter balance to engine rotation.

I ask you though, your justifications are clever... if CTS has 3 missing nubs and an inverted center nub...all completely opposite of oem design, why in the world would they required you to transfer the oem inner core from oem cap that makes use if these 4 completely opposite direction nubs? You are justifying this as a materials based reason. ..and it does not compute.

I believe no material change in production can account for the extremely high gross size difference of the height of the protrusions. I can believe your theory about the metal tabs requiring more force to snap into place (these are micrometers difference so it is possible).

I cannot however, believe the justifications for the missing protrusions. They are simply too big in size and too specific in location to be dismissed. I measured the filter in place after I noticed it did not snap and lock. The measurements were same as stock filter in locked position, so there was no reason for me to attempt to jam it into place.

And one last time, I say to you and anyone here who wants to argue - those missing protrusions that are now not pressing on the rear cap of the inner core absolutely causes oil flow deviation from BMW stock design with the 4 protrusions in place. How the flow is affected is AGAIN unknown to me. But to say that the missing pieces have zero affect on oil flow is to go against common sense AND against my documented evidence of increased metal particulates in each oil change.
 

fmorelli

Moderator
Aug 11, 2017
1,614
Virginia
#53
Based on your assessment I would completely agree that you are best off sticking with all the BMW OE stuff. It is certainly the safest bet and I'm glad you've made that decision. Thanks for sharing your video. I would not have realized that there were differences between the two pieces, and would not have taken the time to go actually look to see what was going on.

I've taken another look, and pulled out my BMW OE cap. My original observations were incorrect. I updated the post above.

Filippo
 
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JuniorB

Corporal
May 9, 2017
227
Rhode Island
#54
Oh... And yes I know Blackstone was mentioned, I'm surprises that this brings up a good conversation that no matter what filter is being used, it should always be used .
 

Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
632
Boston
#55
Why the F are people buying metal oil filter caps? If I thought people were dumb enough on this platform to buy them I would have made them ages ago. People need to stop wasting time trying to improve things which don't need to be improved or changed in the 1st place, like the oil filter.
 
Oct 3, 2018
20
#56
Why the F are people buying metal oil filter caps? If I thought people were dumb enough on this platform to buy them I would have made them ages ago. People need to stop wasting time trying to improve things which don't need to be improved or changed in the 1st place, like the oil filter.
You can't get the stock one off when using some intake manifolds (Docrace). The first runner is too close to the plastic to get the socket on. Also convenience of not having to use the special tool.
 

matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#57
Why the F are people buying metal oil filter caps? If I thought people were dumb enough on this platform to buy them I would have made them ages ago. People need to stop wasting time trying to improve things which don't need to be improved or changed in the 1st place, like the oil filter.
It is possible to improve factory designs that may have cost cutting aspects. Give thanks to those who are willing and financially able to serve as guinea pigs for the community.

If everyone had your sentiment, discoveries and progress would be glacial.
 
Oct 28, 2017
818
Monroe CT
#58
Why the F are people buying metal oil filter caps? If I thought people were dumb enough on this platform to buy them I would have made them ages ago. People need to stop wasting time trying to improve things which don't need to be improved or changed in the 1st place, like the oil filter.
Besides getting rid of as much plastic as possible I like the way it looks and for me it's worth it running a short oci. I also did my interior in carbon fiber and am wrapping my car wed which many could see as a waste.
 

Torgus

Lieutenant
Nov 6, 2016
632
Boston
#59
You can't get the stock one off when using some intake manifolds (Docrace). The first runner is too close to the plastic to get the socket on. Also convenience of not having to use the special tool.
Just use a rubber strap or metal band oil filter removal tool?

https://jmcautomotiveequipment.com/lisle-53500-filter-wrench/ or https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoPure-Universal-Whole-Home-Water-Filter-Strap-Wrench-EPUSW/301066307

I feel like it's trying to be a solution for an issue/problem that does not exist.



It is possible to improve factory designs that may have cost cutting aspects. Give thanks to those who are willing and financially able to serve as guinea pigs for the community.

If everyone had your sentiment, discoveries and progress would be glacial.
I'm all for improving factory designed stuff but it's an oil cap. If it seals well and does not leak it's doing it's job. The fact that they put fins on it is a joke as they are not going to do fuck all ;) I just don't see how an improvement was made or what needed to be improved. Maybe someone could suggest to them to make gas caps for our cars? That is a wide open market to be exploited! When you fill up once a week you get to see something shiny for 5 minutes. That's gotta be worth more than an oil filter cap you will see once every 4 months.



Besides getting rid of as much plastic as possible I like the way it looks and for me it's worth it running a short oci. I also did my interior in carbon fiber and am wrapping my car wed which many could see as a waste.
Interior or exterior wrapping is something you will see daily for hours every day. My hood is rarely popped and when it is it's because I am doing the work. I could care less. Obviously you feel differently which is fine.

Hey if you guys like spending $65 bucks one something you will see once for 10 minutes while doing an oil change more power to you. I still think it's a waste of money and does not improve the original factory piece.
 
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matreyia

Lieutenant
Apr 19, 2017
723
#60
"I'm all for improving factory designed stuff but it's an oil cap. If it seals well and does not leak it's doing it's job."

The theory behind the fins and aluminum design was lower oil temperatures... obviously that did not fulfill its designed function and now the community knows because folks went out and tried it for a long period. Anyone can make a cap that doesn't leak. If people bought the new design thinking it would be better at not leaking, then obviously they missed the point and wasted their money.
 

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