Ti Automotive (Walbro) 274 vs 285 vs 295

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
8,651
AZ
@AzNdevil sent this to me a while ago and I thought it was a great read. I've copied this from radium's website but, you can find the original blog post here: http://www.radiumauto.com/Blog/Post/Radium-s-Ultimate-Fuel-Pump-Test-100


Radium Engineering uses fuel pumps in products ranging from fuel surge tanks, to in-tank fuel pump hangers. We deal with a variety of fuel pumps on a daily basis. By offering a range of options from select manufacturers, we allow our customers to select the perfect fuel pump(s) for their needs.

When deciding what fuel pump to use, it is very important to know how they compare to one another. Third party independent flow testing data on aftermarket pumps can sometimes be found with research on the web. However, the data can be inconsistent between sources, presented in a way that makes comparison difficult, or data may not exist at all. Variation in testing methods can also lead to inconsistent results. This makes it hard to compare pumps from random internet information. To remedy the issue we decided to do our own in-house comparison test of some of the most popular pumps on the market. All pumps are tested in the exact same way back to back. This ensures a true apples-to-apples comparison. This information will equip our customers with the knowledge to choose an optimal fuel pump for their needs.

Testing was performed in September of 2019. The pumps tested are shown below. Absent from the photo is the Ti Automotive/Walbro F90000295, however it closely resembles the F90000274/285 in appearance. For more information on the Walbro F90000-series pumps (Post #2). All pumps were new samples right out of the box and had never been used in a vehicle. We have our own test bench equipped with a highly accurate flow sensor and pressure transducer. These were used for all the test results shown below.
pumpline.jpg

The BKS1000 brushless fuel pump setup from Ti Automotive utilizes a E5LM pump (aka "veyron pump") and a new controller designed for the aftermarket. This was released in the summer of 2019. Ti Automotive does not sell the pump or controller separately at this time.

FLOW RATE
Flow versus pressure is the most important criteria for measuring fuel pump performance. Several factors can make pumps perform better than others in this regard. Every fuel pump has two main components; the actual electric motor and the pump mechanism.
Some of the electric motors are more powerful than others and some pumping mechanisms are more efficient than others. This results in different performance between pumps.
pump_test_flow.jpg

The results shown in the above table probably need some explanation. Each of the 7 pumps were run at pressures from 16psi up to 100psi. A flow reading was taken every 5 psi.
As pressure increases, it gets increasingly more difficult for the pump to push out fuel, hence the flow rate dropping.

The top performer in the test, and also the most expensive, is the Ti Automotive BKS1000 brushless pump setup. This was the only brushless fuel pump in the test. Brushless technology has been making it's way into the automotive performance aftermarket for several years. But this is the first brushless setup by a major OEM pump manufacturer released specifically for the aftermarket with an included controller. Brushless pumps require a controller which drives up the price making them cost prohibitive for many users.

A respectable second place is the Ti Automotive F90000295 which is a new revision of the popular "Walbro 450" style pump. The "295" is the exact same architecture as the F90000274 and F90000285. But unlike those pumps, it does not have a built-in check valve.

Like the Walbro F90000295, the Bosch BR540 also does not have a built-in check valve. It is emerging as a possible "go-to" pump, but the high price makes it hard to compete with the relatively affordable Walbro F90000295.

*The GSS342 was the only gerotor style pump in the test. This pump will actually increase in flow by 10-15% after it has been broken in. The sample tested was not broken in.

CURRENT DRAW
Another important fuel pump characteristic is the amount of electrical power it consumes. This is measured in current (Amps). It is a safe assumption that the more current a fuel pump draws, the more heat will enter the fuel. This can be a major issue on systems with multiple fuel pumps running at full speed.
pump_test_current.jpg

Looking at this chart, there is a noticeable benefit in brushless fuel pump technology. The Ti Automotive BKS1000 was the highest flowing pump tested, but draws a relatively small amount electrical current. Aside from the brushless pumps, it is clear that flow rate is directly related to current.

Keen eyes will notice that the Walbro F90000295, while out flowing all the other brushed pumps, draws less current than several of them. How is this possible? The answer is related to the check valve, or lack of. This results in less restriction at the pump outlet. It should be noted that the Bosch BR540 pump also did not have a check valve, but still did not outflow the Ti Automotive pump.

SOUND
For a street car that is driven on a regular basis, fuel pump noise can be a concern. Using a simple dBA measuring device, the sound levels were measured for 6 of the 7 pumps (F90000295 was not available for this test). The pumps were run at 13.5 VDC and 45psi in a consistent setup.
pump_sound.jpg

The Walbro GSS342 takes the prize as the loudest pump followed by the brushless Ti Automotive BKS1000. Noise is directly related to the pumping mechanism. The Walbro "255" uses a gerotor which is inherently noisy. The Ti Automotive BSK1000 brushless pump uses a twin screw design, which can also create extra noise. The rest of the pumps use a turbine style pumping mechanism which is very quiet, as shown in the results. Certain factors can impact the actual fuel pump noise the driver hears, such as where the pump is placed (fuel tank, surge tank, etc), amount of vehicle insulation, and other factors.

CONCLUSION

Walbro GSS342
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 246 LPH
Current Draw at max pressure: 14 Amp
Excellent value and proven reliability in a small package. While the loudest of the batch, it is still an OEM quality pump so it is all relative. These pumps have a long history and are used extensively all over the world. They are a popular option for mild upgrades.

Walbro F90000274
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 382 LPH
Current draw at max pressure: 19 Amp
This pump has been on the market for several years and is an evolution of the Ti Automotive 39/50 DCSS ("Walbro 450" pumps). Radium Engineering uses this pump extensively in many products and customers have been very pleased with it's performance. Compatible with E85 and traditional fuels, it is a great choice for motorsports customers.

Walbro F90000285
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 424 LPH
Current draw at max pressure: 22.3 Amp
This relatively new pump is a further evolution of the Walbro F90000XXX pumps. It is essentially a more powerful Walbro F90000274 that draws more current. Some customers do not want the extra flow at the expense of the added current, and other customers need all the flow they can get. This pump fits in any Radium product that uses the Walbro F90000274, as it is the exact same physical dimensions. More information on this pump can be found HERE.

Walbro F90000295
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 485 LPH
Current draw at max pressure: 19.7 Amp
The newest offering from Walbro and once again, another evolution of the Walbro F90000XXX pumps. It is essentially a Walbro F90000285, with the more powerful electric motor, but it does not feature a check valve in the outlet port like all other Walbro F90000XXX pumps. This pump fits in any Radium product that uses the F90000274, as it is the exact same physical dimensions. However, it cannot be used in multi-pump configurations when pump staging is used. Also, fuel pressure will drop to zero as soon as the pump is turned off. However, it is the perfect pump to be used in a surge tank as a lift pump since a check valve is NOT required.

AEM 50-1200
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 321 LPH
Current draw at max pressure: 16.6 Amp
This E85 compatible pump from AEM is the same compact package as the Walbro GSS342, but is a turbine style pump. This means less noise and more flow. The relatively low current draw helps keep heat down as well. Radium offers this pump as an option in many products.

Ti Automotive BKS1000
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 577 LPH
Current draw at max pressure: 14.4 Amp
This brushless pump setup is a perfect option for users wanting maximum flow and minimum current. Brushless technology is big leap forward for pumps. Radium Engineering has already released products specifically for this pump setup.

Bosch BR540
Tested flow rate at 45 psi: 404 LPH
Current draw at max pressure: 21 Amp
This Bosch Motorsports pump does not feature a check valve, which means it cannot be run in parallel with another fuel pump and be staged. It comes in with mid-pack performance in line with the Ti Automotive F90000XXX pumps.
Because this pump has a larger body size, it is only available in a select amount of Radium products. Contact us for more details.
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
8,651
AZ
Introduction
In the spring of 2018, TI Automotive (parent company of Walbro) released their newest version of the popular Walbro "450" pump. This new pump can be identified by the part number stamped on the side: F90000285. Many in the industry have already started calling this pump by all sorts of names like "hellcat pump" or "Walbro 520", or some other random number, even though the number is not close to the actual flow rate....at all.
Then came the F90000295 pump, which outflows the F90000285, but does not have a check valve.

So what is so special about these new pumps compared to the current versions of the "450" pump?

(PS Ti Automotive is trying to phase out the name "Walbro", so you will only see the Ti Automotive logo on these pumps)

A Brief History
Without an official trade name, and just a hard-to-say 9-digit part number from TI Automotive, the aftermarket industry has been referring to the family of 39/50 DCSS pumps as the "Walbro 400" or "Walbro 450" or any other made-up name that has been created. At Radium Engineering, we refer to these pumps by the 9-digit part number as this is the only reliable method. Plus, the part numbers are printed right on the side of every pump.
The 39/50 refers to the pump's outside diameter. It was the first to use a large diameter impeller, necessitating the need for the 50mm diameter lower section. The upper section was left at 39mm (standard fuel pump diameter) most likely to keep the pump compatible with many existing packages.
The first pumps to come out were the gas-only F90000262 and the gas/E85 version F90000267. These pumps were already in OEM applications and it took time and convincing by TI Automotive employees to offer them for aftermarket use. Once released, these pumps became extremely popular.
Pump_Guide_262.jpg

Pump_Guide_267.jpg

Then came a new version of the E85 pump, the F90000274. This pump was exactly the same as the F90000267, with the only change being a higher pressure relief valve setting of 112psi, versus 87psi on the F90000267. The F90000274 pump was ideal for users that were experiencing the pressure relief valve opening under high pressure and the pump flow dropping off suddenly. More information on this issue can be found HERE.
Pump_Guide_274.jpg

We have been selling the F90000274 in Radium Engineering products for several years now. It has been extremely popular and has also proven to be reliable when installed and used correctly.

The New F90000285

In the Spring of 2018, TI Automotive quietly released the F90000285 pump. This new version of the 39/50 DCSS E85 pump was used by Dodge in the early Hellcat vehicles and was now available to the aftermarket. This pump peaked our interest, so we decided to do some testing.
IMG_6683_copy.jpg

The F90000285 and F90000295 pumps have the exact same form factor as the F90000274 and F90000267 pumps, so they install anywhere the other pumps do and will be a direct drop-in replacement.


Testing


In order to figure out what exactly this new pump is capable of, physical flow bench testing had to be done. Pump testing, like dyno testing a vehicle, can result in different results depending on who is doing the testing, the equipment being used, the test methodology and the ambient conditions. So comparing pump flow results between two different sources is not advised.
Our test method included testing three of the Walbro F90000274 pumps we had in stock and taking the one with the highest flow rate, as there are inherent flow differences right out of the box with new pumps. We then run the pumps we are going to test for several minutes and let them break in and heat cycle. We had only one F90000285 to use for testing, so we were not able to test several and pick the best one.
Once the pre-test preparations are done, we are then ready to flow test. The F90000274 and F90000285 were tested back-to-back in identical conditions.
F9000_pumps.jpg

The above graph shows the results of the F90000285 (blue) vs the F90000274 (green) flow vs pressure.

Our data shows us that the F90000285 pump flows 8% more than the F90000274 pump, but in order for that to happen, it has to draw 15% more current. So it is essentially the same pump, but using more current to drive the electric motor harder. We also can see that the pump most likely has the same pressure relief valve setting as the 274 pump, because it was still flowing well at 95 psi.

Conclusion

The new F90000285 pump may be just what is needed for some customers who are maxxing out an F90000274 pump or just want some extra head room. You get 8% more flow than the F90000274 (and F90000267), but you are paying for it with more current draw and more wasted heat being lost into the fuel. So there is a tradeoff.
The extra cost of the F90000285 will also be a factor.
 

Cruizinmax

Private
Jul 18, 2018
48
Notice however that that pump does not have a check valve so it will not hold fuel pressure when the pump is not running. This leads to extended cranking times when starting the car because the pump has to build up pressure. Examples of this can be found when using aftermarket fuel pressure regulators on this platform. None currently available hold pressure when the vehicle is off and have that characteristic. That may not bother some but I don't prefer it.
 
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doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
8,651
AZ
Notice however that that pump does not have a check valve so it will not hold fuel pressure when the pump is not running. This leads to extended cranking times when starting the car because the pump has to build up pressure. Examples of this can be found when using aftermarket fuel pressure regulators on this platform. None currently available hold pressure when the vehicle is off and have that characteristic. That may not bother some but I don't prefer it.
I think you'd be surprised. I've tested the car with like 1psi of prime pressure, it fires up fine at least here in the desert.

I'd like to see if these check vavles can be drilled out or removed somehow.
 

impuls

Specialist
Jan 28, 2018
67
The fuel pump is started when you open the drivers door as far as I know. The missing check valve should not be an issue.
 

PFS

Corporal
Nov 19, 2018
102
Great stuff! I'll have to pick up a 295 for bench testing. The old 274 is cheap and gets 'er done but maybe we can take single pump (bucketed) systems up a notch without increasing cost too much.
 
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The BKS 1000 sounds great and the price is really not an issue as long as it can be run of the stock ekp3 without fault codes or the bpm4 if the ekp3 could not handle it.

This would be the best solution in the long run as you dont need fancy fuel systems and possible controllers with the lowest current draw and
upgrade your fuel system if you run out of flow gradually.
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
8,651
AZ
The fuel pump is started when you open the drivers door as far as I know. The missing check valve should not be an issue.
When you key on the ignition the pump is pulsed but it doesn't run continuously. Pressure would quickly fall back to zero.

You can also run an inline check valve so its really not an issue if it causes problems
I'm curious what kind of check valve is being used. Would like to see a pump split open.
 
It will be most likely a ball and spring valve


Any one way check valve that has the flow and pressure capabilities will do, install it between the hpfp and lpfp and it will keep the pressure up and keep the hpfp pump primed just like a walbro 450 which has one built in atm
 

NoGuru

Lieutenant
Jan 9, 2018
557
Just North of Detroit
The BKS 1000 sounds great and the price is really not an issue as long as it can be run of the stock ekp3 without fault codes or the bpm4 if the ekp3 could not handle it.

This would be the best solution in the long run as you dont need fancy fuel systems and possible controllers with the lowest current draw and
upgrade your fuel system if you run out of flow gradually.
Yeah, I am curious if it would work with the stock ekp. This would be a great solution.
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
8,651
AZ
It will be most likely a ball and spring valve


Any one way check valve that has the flow and pressure capabilities will do, install it between the hpfp and lpfp and it will keep the pressure up and keep the hpfp pump primed just like a walbro 450 which has one built in atm
The removal of the check valve is supposedly the difference between the 285 and 295, radium's article made it sound like it was anyway.

To increase the current draw there must be a difference in the windings? Perhaps different material since the voltage is unchanged?

Seems to me this is the walbro 274(450) current wise but with increased flow.
 
A lot cheaper than a bucket setup with the same flow numbers, the only way it will get clogged up if you fill up from a questionable fuel source and its reusable if you want to upgrade
later when a newer better pump comes out.

Seen the 3 x 15 inch one for as little as 139 dollars without looking too hard which is around 2.5 x bigger than what we have now.
 

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