Define built motor? Built to handle what exactly. It seems more as an assembled motor program, with no room for race applications.
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- Thread starter MRE19862
- Start date
Checking piston to wall clearance requires removing the piston which requires taking the rod off the crank. Either MMP reassembled the rod cap incorrectly and caused bearing damage, or this is another lie and PTW clearance was in fact not checked.
See above.
Overheating is an excuse Mauricio likes to use actually lol. On Bryan's MMP engine he claimed overheating first, then back tracked and admitted to not torquing head studs properly.
Better off with a local machine shop for an engine, at least you don't have to ship anything back and forth and if they screw you over you have the option to go back to the shop and deal with the builder directly
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
To the best of our knowledge MMP's tools (for engines or turbochargers) are nil. Literally everything is outsourced yet people are sending them turbos, engines, and cars to build?
Their turbo builds are outsourced to another turbo shop. Their Engine builds outsourced to a local machine shop. Their trinkets are all outsourced to the cheapest China factories. Most of their products are watered down copies of others efforts, that are farmed out to the lowest bidder and then somehow become the "cheapest'est and bestest'est that make the mostest'est powaaa".
But the masses continually take the bait, suck it all up, and pay the price later. Why it has taken over 2 years for this to finally catch on is beyond me? I can say this company is in big trouble, as there are easily 10's upon 10's of thousands in troubled products out there from what we know based on our own interactions with their customers. At any given point they probably are servicing 3+ sets of turbos- that began selling just over 2 years ago.
Last year we had many contact us saying they were being comp'd MMP 1K upgrades for their failed MMP Stage 3's. Many were kept silent this way, obviously. Even to date we easily have 3 MMP customers a month contacting us looking for assistance on turbo related issues- two were literally this week. At the same time we'd wager we only are seeing a small percentage of their issues, meaning there are likely many many others in the same sinking boat. Something tells me the "warranty assistance" is going to become worse and worse, as it is looking very grim folks.
Rob
Their turbo builds are outsourced to another turbo shop. Their Engine builds outsourced to a local machine shop. Their trinkets are all outsourced to the cheapest China factories. Most of their products are watered down copies of others efforts, that are farmed out to the lowest bidder and then somehow become the "cheapest'est and bestest'est that make the mostest'est powaaa".
But the masses continually take the bait, suck it all up, and pay the price later. Why it has taken over 2 years for this to finally catch on is beyond me? I can say this company is in big trouble, as there are easily 10's upon 10's of thousands in troubled products out there from what we know based on our own interactions with their customers. At any given point they probably are servicing 3+ sets of turbos- that began selling just over 2 years ago.
Last year we had many contact us saying they were being comp'd MMP 1K upgrades for their failed MMP Stage 3's. Many were kept silent this way, obviously. Even to date we easily have 3 MMP customers a month contacting us looking for assistance on turbo related issues- two were literally this week. At the same time we'd wager we only are seeing a small percentage of their issues, meaning there are likely many many others in the same sinking boat. Something tells me the "warranty assistance" is going to become worse and worse, as it is looking very grim folks.
Rob
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The problem with that is certain companies have the "rights" to sleeves, and the mfr wont sell them. Theres a thread here on it, and not all have a cnc to make an insert. And pushing decent power you want either option to be safe.
Well, for that maybe you can get the block machined for the insert and or sleeves by that company but get just the block, have local machinist do the rest
A decent machine shop can easily make an insert for this motor. It's the cost for the development of the first one that's going to be high. After the cad work is done and verified, making more on the mill is straight forward. A 3 axis mill can do this fairly easily. Pressing in the insert is not rocket science either . Sleeves are overkill for most of the maket. I see alot of people getting built motors only to push around 500 hp out of the block. Your money is best spent on something else.
Good point. But then you have to consider about how many fingers in the pie.
Bottom line - local or not, you want to go to someone you know has chops to do the work, like with many things that are suitably complex.
Filippo
Yeah, not just any local machine shop that's for sure. You need someone you can trust that's got some great builds under their belt.
Personally, I’d rather do a light build with a good builder and then know I don’t have to worry about replacing my engine down the road. If you pick up a used engine, you’re gonna want to do a refresh of everything to make sure it’s healthy, and at that point you’re probably not far off in price from just building the first motor...and you’re not out the time of dealing with a blown motor and finding a new one.
Reasonable if not prudent advice. My impression on this platform is this is largely if not completely ignored. After all, #sendit
Filippo
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There isn't nothing wrong with out sourcing work, as long its quality controlled, and built with pride. There is a huge difference with businesses out there who love what they do,,and take pride in it. Unlike guys who do it to collect a check. A true race shop will have the ability to build the whole thing from the ground up, there name and history proves it. There are great builders out there for a lot of platforms out there, not many for this platform. You'd think with the possibilitys of what this engine is capable of, there'd be company's now that can do this.
If I ever join the "send it" gang and decide to run 30psi and 14* timing, I will take my motor and at least open the ring end gap. If I ever blow my motor, any junk yard replacement will have that done as well. That's cheap insurance against breaking a ringland. Sure, you still have the stock pisons, but I see more broken ringlands than holes in pistons on this platform (hell, on most platforms). Most of these "built motors" that guys are doing are just pistons with stock rods - if you aren't gonna replace the rods, wtf is the point? Just use stock pistons - they can take a beating as we see already.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the #sendit movement would likely disown you the moment you open up the ring gap. Unless, of course, you do that by overreving the engine ...
Filippo
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the #sendit movement would likely disown you the moment you open up the ring gap. Unless, of course, you do that by overreving the engine ...
Filippo
Gotta full send 32lbs all stock, all the timing, unopened, over rev while its misfiring and dont lift. Only way to rep #sendit.
Please... run high boost 14* on a stock motor and see how well that works out for ya
While I definitely don't know how MMP does their motor builds and have heard the rumors that they use a local builder for at least part of the process (stemming from Bryan and another N54 engine builder fwiw), Rob's claims about his competitor are (shockingly!) lacking in facts and clearly meant to demean them.
Theres pictures and videos of @MMP building their turbos, and quite honestly I've seen a good handful of them. Yet pictures of RB's "best n tha biz tech" machines have never surfaced online. And then conveniently in that post its "MMP doesnt do any of their own work, dont design anything just clone others' products, and they use a local shop to build their turbos" yet in threads of the past where 1Ks were being discussed he's said "they're needlessly over engineered", not to mention constantly claiming the turbos were straight off of a boat from China before being shipped to customers- how can their turbos be Chinese clones of a product that doesnt exist, while also being over engineered, and built by another local turbo shop? Regardless of the engine building supposedly being outsourced which it isn't 100% clear on either - honestly as much as I love the freedom of speech on this forum, claims like that should require solid evidence or be considered slander imo, especially coming from a competing vendor and one who's known to blindly constantly throw shade on others. The reason this forum is so much better than the FB groups is because of the technical and factual information, rather than the "FUCK IT, GO ST TOP MOUNT AND #SENDIT - YOULL ALWAYS HAVE MISFIRES ON AN N54 BRO LOL" posts based on anonymous claims of unknowledgeable people. Just something to think about imo, @doublespaces and @fmorelli, as that is one of the few things nice about the FB groups- no proof of a derogatory claim and your shit gets deleted and you get warned.
As for the smaller stuff being outsourced - I'm sure not one of the twin turbo vendors is making things like silicone outlets or other generic items in house, so that's a moot point. Even the PCV setups are often outsourced - VTT is the only one offering their own valve, the rest use Toyota valves. The RB external it's only proprietary part is the PCV port, the hoses, head plugs, and clamps are all from other companies. In regards to in-house vs outsourcing with a specialist, I agree with @JuniorB - what's better, a well made CNCd piece from someone who does nothing but CNC work, or a "high flow turbo oil drain" that's sloppily welded to an OE connection using no filler? The shop I used to install my turbos are fans of several RB products and talk to the man himself often, but told me not to even bother thinking of ordering the drains due to poor quality welding and fitment.
Every vendor on this platform has their strengths and weaknesses - while the jury might be out on MMP's engines at the moment due to 2 public issues, they have a ton of very happy customers running their turbos who've also had excellent customer support. VRSF might have record holding FMICs with perfect fitment, but some of their products ignore details like polishing and de-burring that would make or break it for some people. ON3 have the easiest to acquire, always in-stock single turbo kits, but their turbos themselves have more issues than any Twin builder has had since 2010. The list goes on.
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