Best aftermarket oil thermostat solution for N54?

[F87Source]

You should look into Schaeffers Supreme 9000 5w-40,thats another great option.

Not LL01, this because NOACK is too high at 11%.

But HTHS is fantastic at 4, but tbn is only 9 which is low for fresh oil.

Overall I'll personally pass, it costs too much for what it is imo. I think redline is cheaper with better specs all around, but not LL01 so I'll pass and stick with penzzoil platinum euro 5w-40 which has pretty solid specs for a fraction of the price of the others. If it's insufficient for track use based on used oil analysis I'll drop it and waive my ll01 requirements for redline.

 

[MrBlah]

anyone know if MHD tunes alter the power reduction due to oil temp? My car definitely reduces power when oil is over ~275, it was in low 90's and the last two sessions of the day I had reduced power after 4-5 laps, I noticed it as soon as it happens, the gauge was showing ~280 The boost feels like it's delayed and lower than normal. Log showing first and last lap of a track session, I've never had warning lights on the dash either I'm running a larger oil cooler in stock location with FTP oil thermostat. This t-stat allows too much flow at cold temps, it takes a painful amount of time for the oil to warm up.

 

[Asbjorn]

anyone know if MHD tunes alter the power reduction due to oil temp? My car definitely reduces power when oil is over ~275, it was in low 90's and the last two sessions of the day I had reduced power after 4-5 laps, I noticed it as soon as it happens, the gauge was showing ~280 The boost feels like it's delayed and lower than normal. Log showing first and last lap of a track session, I've never had warning lights on the dash either I'm running a larger oil cooler in stock location with FTP oil thermostat. This t-stat allows too much flow at cold temps, it takes a painful amount of time for the oil to warm up.
View attachment 40572

You clearly hit limp mode due to high coolant temps. You wont get any warnings at those temps though. The first thing you feel besides loss of power is AC reduction.

I recommend you stop pushing the car when coolant goes above 230F. You can lower the limit in your tune so that you get a yellow warning light at 230F.

You need upgraded auxiliary radiator(s), and you can put the stock thermostat back in to avoid the problem you have with the engine not warming up fast enough. After you have upgraded your radiator setup, you can also consider a larger oil cooler.

And always remember: Don't touch the main radiator, and don't do dual oil coolers. Add auxiliary radiators instead.

 

[MrBlah]

so this is not correct? my coolant did not exceed 116 c, it should not have reduced power if this chart is correct

 

[Asbjorn]

so this is not correct? my coolant did not exceed 116 c, it should not have reduced power if this chart is correct


View attachment 40576

The data you shared shows that your coolant exceeded 116C / 240F, and that's exactly when it happens:

 

[MrBlah]

Thanks it's hard to see unless you mouse over the data in the data logger but it got to 116c and did not exceed it, but that might be because it was reducing power at that point.

Why is sticking with the stock radiator important? Csf makes a nice drop-in radiator.

My changes for the next track day I've added a splitter sealed off all the air gaps on the radiator and intercooler and oil coolers returned to the stock oil cooler thermostat I'm also going to change out the water pump and go with 80% water 20% antifreeze and some water wetter

In the mountains I hit 300f oil temps with one radiator but I have not had power reduction, The track I was at last time has a half a mile straight so it's pretty taxing on the engine

 

[Asbjorn]

Thanks it's hard to see unless you mouse over the data in the data logger but it got to 116c and did not exceed it, but that might be because it was reducing power at that point.

Why is sticking with the stock radiator important? Csf makes a nice drop-in radiator.

My changes for the next track day I've added a splitter sealed off all the air gaps on the radiator and intercooler and oil coolers returned to the stock oil cooler thermostat I'm also going to change out the water pump and go with 80% water 20% antifreeze and some water wetter

In the mountains I hit 300f oil temps with one radiator but I have not had power reduction, The track I was at last time has a half a mile straight so it's pretty taxing on the engine

Yeah I've never had power reduction due to oil. It typically happens due to iat and coolant with the N54.

The csf doesn't help with cooling performance. I hit 117C several times running it. Also some have had them start leaking, and really there's nothing special about that radiator. It is waaaay undersized, just like stock. So I highly recommend against it.

Spend the money on a radiator setup that actually increases cooling performance instead (large aux cooler(s)). You will want to increase the frontal area by around 50% to get something similar to what the S55 has. I recommend dual aux radiators.

Same for FMIC. The 7in vrsf heatsoaks on track because it mainly increases thickness rather than frontal area. You want something with a frontal area similar to the 7.5/evo3 type of fmics to get enough iat cooling on track.

Then finally you can use whatever space is left for a larger oil cooler.

Oh and going 80% water wont help you much either btw. Dont waste time on that. The root problem is that the radiator is just too small to begin with.

I can dig up all the datalogs if you need.

 

[MrBlah]

Exactly which intercooler do you recommend I hit a turtle the other day in mine took a big whack half of the bottom row is pretty much done

 

[MrBlah]

Well I can tell you for sure going more water definitely helps with water water My dirt bikes all overheat in the hardcore trails all I have to do is more water vs antifreeze and water wetter and they don't overheat anymore, it's kind of amazing how well it works

 

[Asbjorn]

Exactly which intercooler do you recommend I hit a turtle the other day in mine took a big whack half of the bottom row is pretty much done

Vrsf 7.5 or evo3, the huge wagner one. I used the 7.5 before and it seems to be almost as good as the wagner which is probably the best on track. Now I use an ER m235i competition fmic because it has the same frontal area as the other two but with space to extend the radiator down behind it. It requires alot of custom work to do that though.

 

[Asbjorn]

Well I can tell you for sure going more water definitely helps with water water My dirt bikes all overheat in the hardcore trails all I have to do is more water vs antifreeze and water wetter and they don't overheat anymore, it's kind of amazing how well it works

Well, I have tried it all. 100% coolant. 100% water + water wetter etc. It doesn't compensate for the lack of radiator.

Remember the S55 uses normal 50/50 and is fine. That engine even goes into GT4 racing.

 

[MrBlah]

Does anyone know if IAT is available on the CAN bus twisted pair? And if so what is the can address and encoding type

 

[Asbjorn]

Does anyone know if IAT is available on the CAN bus twisted pair? And if so what is the can address and encoding type

Well my AiM device also can't show iat using the regular bmw protocol if that's any indication. Always use mhd to log iat and transmission temps on track.

 

[MrBlah]

Edit I forgot MHD uses ODB port I can do both canvas and ODB port next time I'm at the track once I start seeing reduced power I'll do a MHD log.

I'm going to be switching to Jb4 with back in flash and methanol, really just 30%, It reduces intake temps by 75° on my minis

 

[MrBlah]

vfrs is sold out till after my next HPDE so focusing on getting more air into what I have for now

 

[RTA]

I don't want to be rude but if all you have is an upgraded CSF radiator and stock oil cooler and you are not over heating then it is one of the following:

1) Your track does not have enough high speed sections and low speed sections with minimal air flow to really stress out your cooling

2) You car is not setup to be pushed hard on the track, i.e. you don't have enough grip for the corners, poor suspension whatever it may be and that means you don't push your car hard in the corners and let off.

3) Your sessions are too short to really stress the car out.

4) You are just not a fast enough driver.

5) Or it could be the water to oil heat exchanger making the m2 more suceptible to over heating, this could be a possibility if the 1m does not have it.

6) Your power levels were low enough on the track that the upgraded radiator was able to drop enough coolant temps in your system to make 20 min lapping possible without driving oil temps up too, since oil temps and coolant temps are closely intertwined.

The m235i and m2 have larger oil coolers than the 1m and even stock (not really the m235i since it doesn't make enough power) they are near (but not) over heating when driven by a fast driver, there are logs from active auto werkes, and a few others on f87 post showing this. When I took out an m2 for the track on R comps + pagid pads (my buddy's car not mine) all he had were FBO's and a jb4 on map 1 and we over heated the car to limp mode in ~30 min sessions. With jb4 on map 0 it was really close to limp but held on. So it is hard to understand why your 1m is not overheating unless it was reasons 1-6 above.

But I am happy for you that your car has no issues with heat with your driving style, you are incredibly lucky to not have to deal with this incredibly crappy issue.



Also tyspeed deleted the front radiator fan on his m2 to increase air flow as he noticed it was a bottle neck.

Terrible idea, now you are just allowing temperatures to increase and no intervention by the ecu to save the engine. Those high temperatures and high rpms could lead to oil shearing and boom spun bearing.












Overall I really don't care anymore, whatever you guys choose to do with your cars in terms of cooling is up to you. But for me I am going to go my own route which is track it, if it over heats improve cooling setup, and rinse and repeat.

Before beeing so loud and responding to some one who is tracking his n54 for more then 10 years, even in competition, you should better understand my suggestion. Anyhow, decode those nannies as they do not have sensor to feed those nannies, just mathematic assumptions by the DME. And good luck with your route..

 

[F87Source]

Before beeing so loud and responding to some one who is tracking his n54 for more then 10 years, even in competition, you should better understand my suggestion. Anyhow, decode those nannies as they do not have sensor to feed those nannies, just mathematic assumptions by the DME. And good luck with your route..

Uhh what? First off I didn't even talk to you so what do you mean understand your suggestions?

Next off what are you talking about? Decode what nannies? Oil temp and coolant temp "nannies"? You do realize those are based off of inputs coming from an actual oil temperature and coolant temperature sensor right? They are not mathematics assumptions by the DME, when temperatures that are inputted by real sensors reaches a limit threshold the car hits limp mode. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the issue.


What I brought up was valid based on my initial assumptions from prior discussions, oil limp = 270ºF and coolant limp=245ºF, and since I saw oil temps hit 270ºF first on track with a tuned and stock m2 then coolant passing over next I assumed limp was due to oil. But what I did not know was that my prior knowledge was incorrect and the car did not pull power until much later after 270ºF. So know I understand why @martymil was not experiencing limp modes with his stock oil cooler, and I apologize if I was rude to him earlier (although nothing I wrote was there to intentionally bash or be rude towards him I just thought maybe he was not driving hard enough to get the temps high enough or his laps were too short). And thanks to this thread I am able to improve my knowledge on when the car actually cuts power and adjust my build accordingly to better deal with coolant temps. Also thanks to @Asbjorn for staying firm with his coolant assertions and steering me in the correct path in learning - that is what forums are for, to teach you what you did not know or correct prior incorrect knowledge through discussion and debate.


Finally I have not driven a bmw for competition, but I am well versed with tracking cars and for a short time competing in time attack events (stopped because all of the good contests were many provinces over and driving to those events were a huge hassle) with Japanese cars so I am well versed in battling temperatures.

 

[F87Source]

Part of engine / car cutting power can be de-programmed. Look for lsd related codings.. this is not all, but significant, especially brake over heat logic is crazy..

I would personaly improve the capacity of the cooling system itself, but not a super expert on the topic.

Now I see your message.

Again this limp mode issue is not related to things like limp mode due to high brake temps (which indeed is a calculated value) - doesn't exist on the m2 from what I have been seeing if it does then it seems to not be a huge deal. The issue I was discussing was based on true sensor collected values.

But maybe you should have read the thread more carefully before making your second accusation quoted in my above prior response. Because if you are telling me to code out the high engine oil and coolant temperature limp modes and keep pushing through those warnings you are giving asinine advice that will result in a blown engine...

 

[MrBlah]

no longer having limp mode issues, adding a large 4" splitter and switching to two larger oil coolers fixed me up. 85 degree day at one of the hottest tracks I've run (carolina motorsports park) and no more issues!

 

[houtan]

no longer having limp mode issues, adding a large 4" splitter and switching to two larger oil coolers fixed me up. 85 degree day at one of the hottest tracks I've run (carolina motorsports park) and no more issues!

Can you provide more information on your oil cooler setup?