Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
504
Chicago
I'd be looking for a sleeved big bore setup seeing as how there's enough stroke already in this engine
While I'm definitely not an engine builder let alone an expert on building N54s, I was under the impression there wasnt quite enough room for boring to be beneficial on the N54. If it was feasible and up to me I'd love to see a bore + stroked N54 with all the goodies running some big twins to see what kind of torque can be hit and for a lovely sound, but I don't know that that'll ever happen unfortunately.
 

Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
271
Sean,

Funny you should mention stroking the N54, but this is something I've been working on (on-paper) for the past couple of weeks, a 3.2L N54. I very much doubt the cost/benefit ratio makes this worthwhile though. i.e. is a 6% increase in displacement worth 6-7k? Another thing which worries me is the loss of journal overlap (and thus torsional rigidity of the crank) with the additional stroke, hardly ideal when you want to rev to 8k... Plenty of other side-projects in my head, but all in due time :)
 
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Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
504
Chicago
Sean,

Funny you should mention stroking the N54, but this is something I've been working on (on-paper) for the past couple of weeks, a 3.2L N54. I very much doubt the cost/benefit ratio makes this worthwhile though. i.e. is a 6% increase in displacement worth 6-7k? Another thing which worries me is the loss of journal overlap (and thus torsional rigidity of the crank) with the additional stroke, hardly ideal when you want to rev to 8k... Plenty of other side-projects in my head, but all in due time :)
Ha! That's awesome. While I hope it comes to fruition because I would love to see a 3.2L N54, I can see where you're coming from. Even if it doesnt make it to market, I hope you end up getting it done if you can - I would love to have more displacement but if anyone's motor is going to benefit from it the most it's your beautiful Mrs. Frankenstein. If you weren't so damn far away I'd love to swing by your shop just to know what else you're working on/planning on, especially things that you plan on bringing to market. But I suppose "patience is a virtue", right?
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,214
Virginia
I'm not sure why one would stroke the motor. The car is a system and enough power can be reliably generated to give any number of other things fits, including traction. That said I think the clear winner is in getting the head to breathe - folks should be lining up for built N53 heads.

Filippo
 

Hydra Performance

Sergeant
Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
271
Adding displacement is an utterly futile exercise without a suitable top end. At this stage I really have little use for more power, so the reason for stroking the motor would be to improve response, and decrease time to torque. Not that either are especially lacking on my setup, its just that driving the 700Z on track back to back with mine proved to be an eye-opening experience... Easy donuts in 3rd gear at <1/4 throttle anyone? :p
 
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Rob09msport

Captain
Oct 28, 2017
1,201
Monroe CT
I'd be looking for a sleeved big bore setup seeing as how there's enough stroke already in this engine
Exactly only way playi g with stroke worth it on this platform is if going past stock crack levels,which we are nowhere near afaik. N55 maybe diff story but shit what about destroking a n55 9k redline anybody
 
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Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
504
Chicago
I'm not sure why one would stroke the motor. The car is a system and enough power can be reliably generated to give any number of other things fits, including traction. That said I think the clear winner is in getting the head to breathe - folks should be lining up for built N53 heads.

Filippo
I agree with you on just about everything there - but I still like large displacement motors and having a 3.2L twin turbo torque monster would be phenomenal just from a "cool points" stand point basically. Like Omar said, driving a large displacement motor that can break the tires loose and drift or do donuts in any gear is just fucking fun to put it simply lol. I had an LS3 (.8L less displacement than an LS7, 6.2 vs the usual ~6L for an LS1 depending on source) in my Camaro with FBO and a higher final drive ratio, and the torque and instantaneous response from the pedal especially on a NA motor is quite simply addicting. My N54 is a better, faster, and more fun car all around but theres just something about the extra low end torque and growl of a bigger engine that makes me like them still, even if my N54 in it's current form could beat the vast majority of cars with a motor like that - same reason Hellcats are still cool despite the fact that I had a 3 car lead on one 3 times in a row from a dig.

I do agree that a better breathing head is something more of us should invest in - but I think stroking the motor would be reserved for people who are passed that point and using the car strictly for motorsports, not as a streetcar at all.

Tl;dr: you're absolutely right, but a stroker would just be fucking cool.
 
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Hydra Performance

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Free Vendor
Jan 31, 2017
271
Gotta draw the line in the Sand for reliability somewhere lol.
And budget too! LOL

Hope I'm not boring you guys with all the drift 700Z vids, but here is the professionally produced video from the event yesterday. Car did a total of 16 runs in searing heat and 6000ft elevation without missing a beat. I wonder how an N54 would have fared under similar conditions... What say you? :p

 
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langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
868
It's all fun and games until you hit limp mode in the heat or drop a valve in the ls7!:tonguewink:

Love a big cube LS.
 

ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
636
SC
Man. I love the LS. Such a variety of tuning options and sounds phenomenal.

I was seriously considering trying to drop a LS into my E82 but the company doing the base fab work for mounting and trans just stopped developing it after they finished the prototype. Totally feasible.

Still makes me sad.
 

fmorelli

Colonel
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,214
Virginia
Instead of building a bigger motor, just put cheap-ass tires on your car and you should be able to do the same thing .... especially the slow-motion video part :tonguewink:

Filippo
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
868
Man. I love the LS. Such a variety of tuning options and sounds phenomenal.

I was seriously considering trying to drop a LS into my E82 but the company doing the base fab work for mounting and trans just stopped developing it after they finished the prototype. Totally feasible.

Still makes me sad.
Does the e90 stuff not work? I thought Steven Clark was doing that swap and going to offer a kit. Did he abandon that project?
 

ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
636
SC
Does the e90 stuff not work? I thought Steven Clark was doing that swap and going to offer a kit. Did he abandon that project?
Unless I'm mistaken they sold the car or put it on the back burner indefinitely.

Clark Perf Fab was working on an E82 based swap kit and CXR was working on an E90 based kit.
 

aus335iguy

Lieutenant
Nov 18, 2017
932
Brintech in australia have been doing conversions for a while and one member from here is backing an LS7 with a bmw getrag DCT in a 1970 Malibu track weapon. My kinda thing.
 
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Hydra Performance

Sergeant
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Jan 31, 2017
271
In all fairness, my car felt faster on corner exit than the 700Z. Sure there is some turbo lag to deal with, where there is none in the Z, but the midrange torque makes up for it. A cammed LS7 usually opens up >4800 rpm, whereas on mine all hell breaks loose >3500. And when you consider that both setups make similar power and weigh more or less the same, and that it take a pretty "nasty" LS to get to high 6xx PS naturally aspirated, I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. The choppy idle and lumpy low-rpm behavior get old real quick on a DD, as does the abysmal fuel economy. Sure it sounds fantastic, but (I am told) so does my car... Engine swaps are non-trivial undertakings (if you want to end up with a "nice" car at least) and should only be attempted if the existing motor is a dog, which is definitely not the case here. In other words, I wouldn't swap out a sophisticated, lightweight, dual-VVT turbo I6 to put in a Naturally Aspirated V8 - sophisticated or otherwise. Now an LS9 or LT4/5 on the other hand...

PS - Bryan, only "stock" LS7s drop exhaust valves, not 12.7:1 compression race motors destined for competition use :tonguewink:

260psi cranking compression anyone? :D
 
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langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
868
In all fairness, my car felt faster on corner exit than the 700Z. Sure there is some turbo lag to deal with, where there is none in the Z, but the midrange torque makes up for it. A cammed LS7 usually opens up >4800 rpm, whereas on mine all hell breaks loose >3500. And when you consider that both setups make similar power and weigh more or less the same, and that it take a pretty "nasty" LS to get to high 6xx PS naturally aspirated, I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. The choppy idle and lumpy low-rpm behavior get old real quick on a DD, as does the abysmal fuel economy. Sure it sounds fantastic, but (I am told) so does my car... Engine swaps are non-trivial undertakings (if you want to end up with a "nice" car at least) and should only be attempted if the existing motor is a dog, which is definitely not the case here. In other words, I wouldn't swap out a sophisticated, lightweight, dual-VVT turbo I6 to put in a Naturally Aspirated V8 - sophisticated or otherwise. Now an LS9 or LT4/5 on the other hand...

PS - Bryan, only "stock" LS7s drop exhaust valves, not 12.7:1 compression race motors destined for competition use :tonguewink:

260psi cranking compression anyone? :D
Ha, it was just joke - I love LS stuff. I think the LS swap has its place, especially once you start chasing BIG horsepower. This platform is great, and I have no plans to ever ditch my N54, but I see why guys that are going for 800+ want to switch. Also, no one that I know of is willing to do 600 whp NA just due to cost. Sloppy Mechanics has too many examples of $300 junkyard 4.8s with 80+mm turbos making 900+ on stock bottom ends to even mess with anything NA.
 
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Panzerfaust

Lieutenant
Jul 3, 2018
504
Chicago
I have to say dd the 650s on an early tune Is amazing. It's beautiful having ac and listening to turbos that spool early in the low 2s on partial throttle.
Glad to hear good feedback on them, and more importantly that you like them. Who's tuning/what boost are you at currently if I might ask?

There is something cool about always hearing spooling once you go upgraded twins. Not to bring another vendor into this but my 1Ks sound awesome driving around too, let alone when hitting the go fast pedal harder. I know lots of people like the sound of a ST on full boost during a flyby, but I'm 100% in the boat of Omar where upgraded twins are the way to go on this platform for a variety of reasons - the cool-ass sounds while cruising along with the on-demand torque is icing on the cake imo.

Keep us updated since I think so far you're the only regular forum user with them all set and running right now!
 
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