Sure, I can take some pics of the install. It's hot here so I have to wait for my engine bay to cool off this evening. Here's what the temp was at 10pm last night while digging into my hot bay (moving the 535i cowl system, Dremeling off the airbox mounting peg, as appeared to be necessary). Only to put it back together with stock coils for another day. Oh, joy!
N54 Precision Raceworks Ignition Group Buy! - DBV2
- Thread starter John@DBV2
- Start date
@PRECISION RACEWORKS okay so it looks like the spacing between the brackets when mounted 1/2 and 5/6 is wider than the outermost fuel rail bolts.
Any tips?
5/6 bracket:
1/2 bracket:
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Ok, it helps to loosen all the brackets...
It's tight with OCC plumbing running behind and the PTC valve in a (VTT) inlet.
It's tight with OCC plumbing running behind and the PTC valve in a (VTT) inlet.
Well I experienced a major problem. I got the coils installed, flashed MHD to the PR coil checkbox, started the car and had super rough idle. It was missing badly and when I pressed in the clutch it made a horrible rattling noise. (In hindsight I suppose it was the dual mass flywheel slapping back and forth without the mass of the rest of the main shaft or whatever damping it with clutch out.)
Anyway, it was idling super roughly and then there was a pop and a hiss and smoke rising from my engine bay. I almost panicked because I thought it was fuel spray. I turned the car off and looked closer and it was the number 3 PR coil sizzling. Then I noticed the casing split open. At first I thought it was due to physical tension from the fitment, but that wasn't really an issue if you leave all the coil mounting bolts loose to allow the play between coil mounting hole and bolt to get it all settled in.
Then I pulled the harness connector off coil 3 and found one of the terminals was pushed back into the connector. They should be locked on place but somehow this one wasn't locked enough to prevent being pushed back. I noticed I had to be kind of careful when plugging those in. The first one squeezed the seal such that it extruded slightly out of the connector. It seemed like the locking tab was pulling the male connector forward before or while the terminals were mating. I took extra care after the first one, number 6, to try to center the male connector so the seal would all go in the hole. I had the dielectric grease that is recommended for the boots and I put some on the rest of the seals to help them slip into place.
It seemed to help to center the connector while pulling the locking tab forward over the retention tab, which is really steep on the approach angle, like a 90 degree step it seemed, relying on the ramp profile of the locking tab to displace it when plugging it in.
I don't know what that terminal and wire of the harness does, but apparently if it's not making good contact the coil fries and pops open.
I put my stock coils back in and flashed to uncheck the PR coil option, and now my car won't start. I don't know too much about the topic, but I think my DME coil drivers are blown now. This is not good.
My thought at this time is that the terminal wasn't clicked into the connector well enough, so this was caused by a manufacturing problem. Before starting the car I did a visual check of everything and pushed down on all the plug wires even though I was sure they had clicked. I could not tell that anything was wrong with the harness.
I recorded a couple videos of the initial coil smoking and some inspection I did right after. When they are done uploading I'll post the links.
@PRECISION RACEWORKS I need your help.
Anyway, it was idling super roughly and then there was a pop and a hiss and smoke rising from my engine bay. I almost panicked because I thought it was fuel spray. I turned the car off and looked closer and it was the number 3 PR coil sizzling. Then I noticed the casing split open. At first I thought it was due to physical tension from the fitment, but that wasn't really an issue if you leave all the coil mounting bolts loose to allow the play between coil mounting hole and bolt to get it all settled in.
Then I pulled the harness connector off coil 3 and found one of the terminals was pushed back into the connector. They should be locked on place but somehow this one wasn't locked enough to prevent being pushed back. I noticed I had to be kind of careful when plugging those in. The first one squeezed the seal such that it extruded slightly out of the connector. It seemed like the locking tab was pulling the male connector forward before or while the terminals were mating. I took extra care after the first one, number 6, to try to center the male connector so the seal would all go in the hole. I had the dielectric grease that is recommended for the boots and I put some on the rest of the seals to help them slip into place.
It seemed to help to center the connector while pulling the locking tab forward over the retention tab, which is really steep on the approach angle, like a 90 degree step it seemed, relying on the ramp profile of the locking tab to displace it when plugging it in.
I don't know what that terminal and wire of the harness does, but apparently if it's not making good contact the coil fries and pops open.
I put my stock coils back in and flashed to uncheck the PR coil option, and now my car won't start. I don't know too much about the topic, but I think my DME coil drivers are blown now. This is not good.
My thought at this time is that the terminal wasn't clicked into the connector well enough, so this was caused by a manufacturing problem. Before starting the car I did a visual check of everything and pushed down on all the plug wires even though I was sure they had clicked. I could not tell that anything was wrong with the harness.
I recorded a couple videos of the initial coil smoking and some inspection I did right after. When they are done uploading I'll post the links.
@PRECISION RACEWORKS I need your help.
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I think this could potentially happen with any coil location, since the harness connector and its terminals would be the same. I believe the only difference would be the length of the harness.
Actually, the old method of repinning would make this easier to avoid upon install, but without a connector to protect the terminal joint I imagine there is some possibility to pull one apart accidentally after install the that doesn't exist with the connectors.
BreakMyBillfold,
I must say it would be nice if you would contact us first before posting things as it shares incorrect information but lets move past that and hopefully people can scratch this from their memory.
So lets address the issues posted 1 by 1....
Fitment of the coils - The coils fit perfectly on the N54 and align 100% with the bolt locations zero issues, it appears after you tried again you found that they do fit perfectly with the mounts.
Coil terminal - The coil terminal while it looks like it's a problem isn't actually a problem at all. You can measure the coil terminal and the mate terminal in the Delphi connector and see there is still more than sufficient engagement between the two. This isn't our design we are trying to defend either it is a design that has been around for about 2 decades. This is is an off the shelf connector. This identical connector has been used by GM, Delphi, Mercury Marine, AEM, MSD, IGN, and about 10 other companies. If you reached out to us we would of been able to explain this and also explain it is a non issue.
DME Coil Drivers (IGBT) - Most likely you did not cause any damage, there are safeties in the DME and we have not seen any DME's have issues even when we have tried to kill them. The most likely problem is a blown fuse due to the short (we will cover that below).
Smoking Coil - So what causes a coil to smoke is when it is charged well beyond saturation point. This occurs when the white signal wire going to the coil is grounded (it could be a short or improper wiring) when this happens instead of a few milliseconds of charge time the coil charges for however long the short occurs (or until the fuse blows in the fuse box). We have had a couple people wire backwards hooking white to brown (ground) and experience smoke like yours and they said it took a minute or so (pretty impressive for a coil that should only see a few milliseconds of charge time).
Anyways reach out to us through E-mail or PM we are more than happy to work with you and figure out what is going on. We will even warranty parts regardless of any fault or cause (don't think you are at fault just being clear we are here to help however we can). Please in the future though we ask that you reach out to us first, the internet is forever and people years from now will see your video and think there is a problem with our product.
For all of the readers in the thread
We are getting close to 5,000 coils on the market now and you don't see this anywhere else you look. So there is nothing wrong with the coils or the design. Is it possible he got a defective one absolutely every manufacture can have a defect this is new to us we haven't seen any defective coils yet but it is possible. So we ask that people think about our track record and weigh it against the current thread when you shop or think Precision Raceworks.
I must say it would be nice if you would contact us first before posting things as it shares incorrect information but lets move past that and hopefully people can scratch this from their memory.
So lets address the issues posted 1 by 1....
Fitment of the coils - The coils fit perfectly on the N54 and align 100% with the bolt locations zero issues, it appears after you tried again you found that they do fit perfectly with the mounts.
Coil terminal - The coil terminal while it looks like it's a problem isn't actually a problem at all. You can measure the coil terminal and the mate terminal in the Delphi connector and see there is still more than sufficient engagement between the two. This isn't our design we are trying to defend either it is a design that has been around for about 2 decades. This is is an off the shelf connector. This identical connector has been used by GM, Delphi, Mercury Marine, AEM, MSD, IGN, and about 10 other companies. If you reached out to us we would of been able to explain this and also explain it is a non issue.
DME Coil Drivers (IGBT) - Most likely you did not cause any damage, there are safeties in the DME and we have not seen any DME's have issues even when we have tried to kill them. The most likely problem is a blown fuse due to the short (we will cover that below).
Smoking Coil - So what causes a coil to smoke is when it is charged well beyond saturation point. This occurs when the white signal wire going to the coil is grounded (it could be a short or improper wiring) when this happens instead of a few milliseconds of charge time the coil charges for however long the short occurs (or until the fuse blows in the fuse box). We have had a couple people wire backwards hooking white to brown (ground) and experience smoke like yours and they said it took a minute or so (pretty impressive for a coil that should only see a few milliseconds of charge time).
Anyways reach out to us through E-mail or PM we are more than happy to work with you and figure out what is going on. We will even warranty parts regardless of any fault or cause (don't think you are at fault just being clear we are here to help however we can). Please in the future though we ask that you reach out to us first, the internet is forever and people years from now will see your video and think there is a problem with our product.
For all of the readers in the thread
We are getting close to 5,000 coils on the market now and you don't see this anywhere else you look. So there is nothing wrong with the coils or the design. Is it possible he got a defective one absolutely every manufacture can have a defect this is new to us we haven't seen any defective coils yet but it is possible. So we ask that people think about our track record and weigh it against the current thread when you shop or think Precision Raceworks.
Don’t worry, there’s no issue with the kit on the N54 from the N55. They fit just fine. With any questions just contact Precision Raceworks directly and they will tell you exactly what to do
Should be getting sent out in the next week or two for sure. Robert is on it and working away
Robert, thank you. Yes that's reasonable. I've made the videos private and removed my post here to them. That channel has no subscribers and the 11 and 13 views are probably mostly mine.
I was and am not intending to blindside you or derail your business. If I didn't believe in the product I would not have bought it. I did so even though I had already bought coils for an alternative, but discerned that with the improved connectors and boots that I preferred your product.
I was very tired by the time I posted what happened and just wanted to document what I'd experienced before I forgot anything. People were asking for install pics and part of me wanted to not "go dark" while others are receiving kits (probably without instructions like me) and could potentially somehow prevent having the same experience.
I'll take the rest of this to PM and/or phone.
These two statements actually contradict each other... and im sure this was not your intent and im also sure your products are good and there are always going to be failures eventually just like anything else in this world. Even big companies like bmw has issues, blow motor recall, airbag recall, injector recall ect... So no one is going to judge your product based on the failure.
My only issue is now that breakmybillfold deleted his post and videos it might seem like he's now covering for you which we know isnt true (he just wants to make things right) However, there was some good to this post and that was to inform others that its a really good idea to double check to make sure all the wires are clicked in that way it prevents a coil from breaking, or worse damaging something else.
Its not your fault, it looks like its either a wiring issue or the wires were never locked in. Id suggest for anyone installing this to double check the wiring harness for clicks. If you have a multimeter i would also double check for continuity in all the wiring harness to make sure none of the others became damaged from this as well.
Id also suggest double checking the wiring to make sure the wires to connected to the correct pins. Its possible that particular harness had two wires mixed up and caused the coil failure since this is what precision claims is what has caused there only coil failures.
http://www.precisionraceworks.com/PDF Downloads/N54_Ignition_System_Install_Guide.pdf
I'm planning on checking the harness(es) for reversed wires, as well as the DME fuse once I know which one/where to check, soon.
I want to be fair to both Robert and to "the community," as they say. I do think it is a good idea before install to inspect the terminals in the connectors and also confirm that all the wire color and pinouts are the same among them. I would have done that if I thought it could be an issue.
At this point I hope that it is something obvious like that, and that my no-start while back to stock is indeed just a blown fuse.
I want to be fair to both Robert and to "the community," as they say. I do think it is a good idea before install to inspect the terminals in the connectors and also confirm that all the wire color and pinouts are the same among them. I would have done that if I thought it could be an issue.
At this point I hope that it is something obvious like that, and that my no-start while back to stock is indeed just a blown fuse.
We did reach out to BreakMyBillfold and asked him to pull the post for now and to work with us to figure out what happened. We told him if after working with us if he wants to post then to share where ever he likes. But we want to make sure that we don't get a bad reputation for something that is possibly not even related to the product. We were clear we don't want him to coverup anything we just ask that he waits until he has a full understanding before making post that cost small business's big time. Basically just asking him to do what is right no bias or anything else. Honestly we don't think it was his intention to sound like he was bashing anyone he was just sharing an experience and it came across wrong.
You do bring up very good points about having people double check. In the past I personally have been a quality manager at 2 very large fortune 500 companies. One thing we drilled into people is EVERYONE IS AN INSPECTOR. That is exactly what you are trying to help educate here and is never a bad idea to look at any product to make sure there isn't anything wrong. Now with that said we expect our product to ship without any defects or other quality related issues everything and customers should not need to or be expected to inspect our work. But at the end of the day it never hurts to double check just like you are pointing out.
I'm not sure what fuse it could be since I rarely look at fuses myself. Does it crank and not turn over? I'd also double check the wiring to the OEM harness to make sure that what ever got grounded out and messed up the coil also didnt reach back into the OEM harness.
A multimeter will be your best friend with your diagnosis. Another possibility is to refresh your car back to stock; It's rare but it happened to me where mhd glitched and I though I was going to have to tow my car home. I was switching from on my 93 tune to e85 after filling up with e85 and mhd did its 2min write and was successful yet the car wouldnt turn over ever. Not sure what happened but I even flashed back to 93 and it didnt fix it. I said screw it and flashed it stock and it started, then refreshed my e85 tune and it worked. Wasted a little over an hr at a gas station (wife wasn't happy) but that's when I noticed the mhd glitch. It never happened after that (about 3 months ago) but it doesnt hurt to double check this too.
Hopefully you fix it soon since you have to work later. Good luck.
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He got to go home during lunch and looked at what we said it should be and sure enough it was. The harnesses we sent had 1 connector with brown and white wires swapped in the connector. Fuse for the coils blow when wired backwards too (doing their job and all) so he will need to replace fuse this evening when he has time. Other then that new coil and wire are in the mail and will be to him tomorrow. We made a mistake and pinned the connector wrong, we do our best in all things we do but mistakes happen and this is on us. Just glad we were able to get him taken care of and that we still can take pride in saying we have zero natural failures for our coils even with almost 5,000 shipped!
Lesson learned for us we will be putting in place new quality inspections for these harnesses as we have several thousand made per run and this is a mistake that would be easily made and sneak by during packaging.
Lesson learned for us we will be putting in place new quality inspections for these harnesses as we have several thousand made per run and this is a mistake that would be easily made and sneak by during packaging.
Mistakes happen especially with the n55 wires since you added the heat shielding so it blocks the visuals to make sure the correct colors match the OEM ones when plugged in.
What matters is your fast response, customer service and getting it all fixed asap. Now if only you guys were faster with responding to me when I wanted to buy some coils with the first set of connectors, lol. Oh well maybe in the future I'll rethink it again. At least your customer service and response times have improved and I hope everyone enjoys their new coils when they get them
https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads...gnition-group-buy-dbv2.3336/page-9#post-45051
If you want to check your harness here are some pics of mine. YMMV.
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Awesome info @BreakMyBillfold thanks for sharing.
Kudos to Robert for taking care of it. They really have been amazing for us to deal with through the whole process. Glad you are all sorted out man be sure to update once it’s fixed up and running! I’m sure many are curious. My turbo kit is about to be finished as well so I’ll be installing my kit very soon. Been sitting here for over a month at this point.
Kudos to Robert for taking care of it. They really have been amazing for us to deal with through the whole process. Glad you are all sorted out man
be sure to update once it’s fixed up and running! I’m sure many are curious. My turbo kit is about to be finished as well so I’ll be installing my kit very soon. Been sitting here for over a month at this point.
