For anyone interested in 210mm ring gears, email this guy I found on bimmerforums, usually in the E31 section, he goes by dragon850. Specializes in the older diffs and has a good line on the gears if he doesn't have them in stock. May have one or two 2.81's on hand, and if you're really lucky and want to spend extra he might be able to source a 2.65. Mine was $300 shipped. His email is [email protected]
Discussion about issues encountered whilst converting to M3 Flash and GWS
- Thread starter aus335iguy
- Start date
LKQ is offering complete pumpkins for $200 (there are 2 in stock 30mi from me). Add tax on that and it'll be $220 out the door then you can rip the gears out and re-sell the pumpkin to recoup some of the cost.
<first draft of first public post on this topic>
N54 DCT w/M3 conversion
This post is going to be long. REALLY long. I will provide an introduction, and then a table of contents that can guide you to the section you are interested in.
Intro:
A few people have tried to change the rear gear ratio on the DCT enabled cars (N54 or S55) for years with relatively little success. A small group of people have tried changing the N54 DCT launch control behavior. And an even smaller group of people have attempted to figure out the how and why behind the DCT’s behavior patterns.
Our goal with the DCT with this project was to bring adjustable launch control without traction control, shiftlogic, and a stronger M3 rear diff to the N54 DCT community. We treated the DCT as a black box. After 5mo we have not only achieved all our original goals, we have achieved more. We now also understand how to bring MDrive, and MDM to the 335i/335is as well. And the holy grail for all DCT cars…I think we are on the verge of running any rear diff ratio you want.
Special thanks goes out to the team responsible for this:
@dyezak
@doublespaces
@Bimaxtremeretro
@aus335iguy
@RSL
@Stokes
@LMB335is
@boostE92d
@jyamona
@Hpaula
@NoQuarter
@TireDeathRacing
@BMWJunkie
@derekgates
Table of Contents:
I. Hardware
a. Shiftlogic
b. Adjustable Launch Control
c. MDrive/MDM
II. Theory
III. How To Guide
IV. Future Development
V. FAQ
Section I – Hardware
So this is probably the first thing you are curious about. What all would you need to buy ($$$$) to enable this functionality. Here goes a nice list and the average used prices on ebay as of this posting.
A. Shiftlogic
a. Electronics
i. M3 GWS - $200
ii. M3 Shift Knob - $100
iii. M3 Center Console Trim - $200
iv. M3 Shiftlogic Button - $25
v. M3 Center Console Switch Cluster (Power, DSC, EDC) - $100
vi. 8pin connector - $10
b. Hardware (option 1)
i. M3 Diff (3.15) - $500
ii. M3 Axles - $300
iii. M3 Driveshaft - $300
c. Electronic Hardware Emulation
i. MHD (in development)
B. Adjustable Launch Control
a. M3 SZL - $250
(NOTE: It appears the Z435is already has the correct SZL and you don’t need an M3 unit)
C. MDrive/MDM
a. M3 DSC - $300
b. M3 KOMBI - $300
c. M1 DME Flash – (unkown cost, under development)
Section II – Theory
So we have been forced to infer functionality in a lot of areas, there is very little that we know for a fact as we haven’t be able to look at a DKG EGS BIN directly at this point. We knew going in that the e9x M3 DCT was exactly the same mechatronic unit, same gearset, same clutches, same functionality as the N54 DCT.
After several months of talking, a small group of us did research on newtis.info looking over wiring diagrams we decided that it should theoretically possible to flash the DCT with the M3 ZB file in WinKFP. We did also predict that would require the use of the M3 GWS (gear shift assembly) and shiftlogic buttons.
The goal was for us to get on the fly adjustable shift firmness (shiftlogic) and adjustable launch control. We fitted the M3 GWS, and the M3 Shiftlogic buttons in a 335is (basic repining of some connectors required) then flashed the M3 GTS ZB file to the 335is DCT using WinKFP.
Initial reaction was that it worked. We had to re-code the KOMBI to allow shiftlogic to be seen, and to get the tachometer to work which wasn’t predicted but it was pretty easy. But while we did have shiftlogic, we didn’t get adjustable launch control. We also had an unexpected sideffect of “soft” or “mushy” shifts. We did however get full traction control disabled during Launch Control!
There was a theory floated that the M3 KOMBI (being a gateway module) could be having some impact on speed/rpm values. So we fitted an M3 KOMBI. It was an easy, well documented procedure so no problems there. The end result however was that the KOMBI did nothing for us. BUT the KOMBI would prove valuable much later down the road.
Next theory was the 335i DSC was causing some issues…we needed to swap over the M3 DSC. So we fitted the M3 DSC and had loads of issues. Long story short we found @Bimaxtremeretro who explained how to fool NCS Expert into believing the car was an M3 without updating the VO, we could then default code the DSC and perform all adaptation procedures.
Now we had an M3 DSC installed but it did nothing to fix our issues. But because the SZL and DSC units are paired we thought that the M3 MDrive SZL unit would be required…and upon fitting this we found that we got adjustable launch control!! After further testing we found that a Z435is didn’t need the M3 SZL for the adjustable launch control, so some newer cars may already have the correct SZL that outputs the correct signals for adjustable LC.
We were left with a fully functional M3 conversion but with “soft” “mushy” shifts. It was around this time that @jyamona found the DME subroutine for launch control where the DCT would send a request to the DME to hold a particular RPM via a PT-CAN message. @jyamona proved that he could hijack that routine and input whatever value he wanted in there instead of relying on the PT-CAN requested RPM value.
Doing some logging we then observed that on a shift the RPM was not dropping as much as it should for the next gear. It was being held artificially high. We took this revelation and applied the BMW marketing material which touted the DCT as providing smoother downshifts because it rev-matched (blipped) the throttle on a downshift. Effectively the transmission was using the exact same DME subroutine during launch control as a downshift…it was simply sending a PT-CAN request for the DME to target a specific RPM for the shift to occur. So then we inferred that the DCT could be doing this on regular upshifts as well.
Taking that knowledge back to our clean logs we did some math and found that we were right on the money. The shift was always targeting an RPM that lined up with the final gear ratio being 3.15….but our test car (335is) had a 2.56 rear gears. So the clutches were slipping excessively due to the RPM being WAY higher than it expected. This was our soft/mushy shifts.
We fitted our car with a M3 3.15 LSD and instantly had flawless shifts! All through this process we had people playing with the coding for M Mode in the CIC and we couldn’t get that working. Pressing the M button on the steering wheel and having all your preferences loaded would be nice.
@bimaxtremeturbo came back to the rescue here. He got M Mode and MDM mode to work on a car down in Australia only after swapping over to the 1M DME flash. Turns out this is the last piece of the puzzle, the DME actually interacts with all the other powertrain modules when calling up M Mode or MDM and instructs them to call up the selected pre-sets.
As it sits I (@dyezak) hav applied all this theory to my car except the 1M DME flash. Everything except the M button on the steering wheel functions flawlessly. We will be making this change in the near future just to prove out the theory and eliminate any/all variables. But I am now driving a true BMW mutt, half 335 and half M3. It has an M3 KOMBI, M3 SZL, M3 DSC, M3 GWS, M3 Center Console, M3 Switch Cluster, M3 Shiftlogic Buttons, M3 Rear Diff, M3 Axles, Custom Driveshaft, M3 DCT Flash.
As you can imagine this was a long, expensive process. It was a valuable learning experience however. And we want the community to have this knowledge.
Section III – How to Guide
<LINK TO EXTERNAL GUIDE>
Section IV – Future Development
@jyamona is currently looking into the possibility of applying an offset to the DME subroutine where the transmission asks for a specific RPM. This would fix shifting problems for any final drive ratio meaning you could run any ratio BMW makes. From a 2.56 all the way to a 4.30.
We are also looking to bring MDM mode to my car to test it out. The M3 DSC only has on/off…there isn’t a “half on” setting like the 335i has. As such you can get in a lot of trouble fast with DSC full off. MDM mode would be much welcomed. So we will be applying a 1M DME flash soon to prove the last piece out.
Section V – FAQ
TO BE DEVELOPED
N54 DCT w/M3 conversion
This post is going to be long. REALLY long. I will provide an introduction, and then a table of contents that can guide you to the section you are interested in.
Intro:
A few people have tried to change the rear gear ratio on the DCT enabled cars (N54 or S55) for years with relatively little success. A small group of people have tried changing the N54 DCT launch control behavior. And an even smaller group of people have attempted to figure out the how and why behind the DCT’s behavior patterns.
Our goal with the DCT with this project was to bring adjustable launch control without traction control, shiftlogic, and a stronger M3 rear diff to the N54 DCT community. We treated the DCT as a black box. After 5mo we have not only achieved all our original goals, we have achieved more. We now also understand how to bring MDrive, and MDM to the 335i/335is as well. And the holy grail for all DCT cars…I think we are on the verge of running any rear diff ratio you want.
Special thanks goes out to the team responsible for this:
@dyezak
@doublespaces
@Bimaxtremeretro
@aus335iguy
@RSL
@Stokes
@LMB335is
@boostE92d
@jyamona
@Hpaula
@NoQuarter
@TireDeathRacing
@BMWJunkie
@derekgates
Table of Contents:
I. Hardware
a. Shiftlogic
b. Adjustable Launch Control
c. MDrive/MDM
II. Theory
III. How To Guide
IV. Future Development
V. FAQ
Section I – Hardware
So this is probably the first thing you are curious about. What all would you need to buy ($$$$) to enable this functionality. Here goes a nice list and the average used prices on ebay as of this posting.
A. Shiftlogic
a. Electronics
i. M3 GWS - $200
ii. M3 Shift Knob - $100
iii. M3 Center Console Trim - $200
iv. M3 Shiftlogic Button - $25
v. M3 Center Console Switch Cluster (Power, DSC, EDC) - $100
vi. 8pin connector - $10
b. Hardware (option 1)
i. M3 Diff (3.15) - $500
ii. M3 Axles - $300
iii. M3 Driveshaft - $300
c. Electronic Hardware Emulation
i. MHD (in development)
B. Adjustable Launch Control
a. M3 SZL - $250
(NOTE: It appears the Z435is already has the correct SZL and you don’t need an M3 unit)
C. MDrive/MDM
a. M3 DSC - $300
b. M3 KOMBI - $300
c. M1 DME Flash – (unkown cost, under development)
Section II – Theory
So we have been forced to infer functionality in a lot of areas, there is very little that we know for a fact as we haven’t be able to look at a DKG EGS BIN directly at this point. We knew going in that the e9x M3 DCT was exactly the same mechatronic unit, same gearset, same clutches, same functionality as the N54 DCT.
After several months of talking, a small group of us did research on newtis.info looking over wiring diagrams we decided that it should theoretically possible to flash the DCT with the M3 ZB file in WinKFP. We did also predict that would require the use of the M3 GWS (gear shift assembly) and shiftlogic buttons.
The goal was for us to get on the fly adjustable shift firmness (shiftlogic) and adjustable launch control. We fitted the M3 GWS, and the M3 Shiftlogic buttons in a 335is (basic repining of some connectors required) then flashed the M3 GTS ZB file to the 335is DCT using WinKFP.
Initial reaction was that it worked. We had to re-code the KOMBI to allow shiftlogic to be seen, and to get the tachometer to work which wasn’t predicted but it was pretty easy. But while we did have shiftlogic, we didn’t get adjustable launch control. We also had an unexpected sideffect of “soft” or “mushy” shifts. We did however get full traction control disabled during Launch Control!
There was a theory floated that the M3 KOMBI (being a gateway module) could be having some impact on speed/rpm values. So we fitted an M3 KOMBI. It was an easy, well documented procedure so no problems there. The end result however was that the KOMBI did nothing for us. BUT the KOMBI would prove valuable much later down the road.
Next theory was the 335i DSC was causing some issues…we needed to swap over the M3 DSC. So we fitted the M3 DSC and had loads of issues. Long story short we found @Bimaxtremeretro who explained how to fool NCS Expert into believing the car was an M3 without updating the VO, we could then default code the DSC and perform all adaptation procedures.
Now we had an M3 DSC installed but it did nothing to fix our issues. But because the SZL and DSC units are paired we thought that the M3 MDrive SZL unit would be required…and upon fitting this we found that we got adjustable launch control!! After further testing we found that a Z435is didn’t need the M3 SZL for the adjustable launch control, so some newer cars may already have the correct SZL that outputs the correct signals for adjustable LC.
We were left with a fully functional M3 conversion but with “soft” “mushy” shifts. It was around this time that @jyamona found the DME subroutine for launch control where the DCT would send a request to the DME to hold a particular RPM via a PT-CAN message. @jyamona proved that he could hijack that routine and input whatever value he wanted in there instead of relying on the PT-CAN requested RPM value.
Doing some logging we then observed that on a shift the RPM was not dropping as much as it should for the next gear. It was being held artificially high. We took this revelation and applied the BMW marketing material which touted the DCT as providing smoother downshifts because it rev-matched (blipped) the throttle on a downshift. Effectively the transmission was using the exact same DME subroutine during launch control as a downshift…it was simply sending a PT-CAN request for the DME to target a specific RPM for the shift to occur. So then we inferred that the DCT could be doing this on regular upshifts as well.
Taking that knowledge back to our clean logs we did some math and found that we were right on the money. The shift was always targeting an RPM that lined up with the final gear ratio being 3.15….but our test car (335is) had a 2.56 rear gears. So the clutches were slipping excessively due to the RPM being WAY higher than it expected. This was our soft/mushy shifts.
We fitted our car with a M3 3.15 LSD and instantly had flawless shifts! All through this process we had people playing with the coding for M Mode in the CIC and we couldn’t get that working. Pressing the M button on the steering wheel and having all your preferences loaded would be nice.
@bimaxtremeturbo came back to the rescue here. He got M Mode and MDM mode to work on a car down in Australia only after swapping over to the 1M DME flash. Turns out this is the last piece of the puzzle, the DME actually interacts with all the other powertrain modules when calling up M Mode or MDM and instructs them to call up the selected pre-sets.
As it sits I (@dyezak) hav applied all this theory to my car except the 1M DME flash. Everything except the M button on the steering wheel functions flawlessly. We will be making this change in the near future just to prove out the theory and eliminate any/all variables. But I am now driving a true BMW mutt, half 335 and half M3. It has an M3 KOMBI, M3 SZL, M3 DSC, M3 GWS, M3 Center Console, M3 Switch Cluster, M3 Shiftlogic Buttons, M3 Rear Diff, M3 Axles, Custom Driveshaft, M3 DCT Flash.
As you can imagine this was a long, expensive process. It was a valuable learning experience however. And we want the community to have this knowledge.
Section III – How to Guide
<LINK TO EXTERNAL GUIDE>
Section IV – Future Development
@jyamona is currently looking into the possibility of applying an offset to the DME subroutine where the transmission asks for a specific RPM. This would fix shifting problems for any final drive ratio meaning you could run any ratio BMW makes. From a 2.56 all the way to a 4.30.
We are also looking to bring MDM mode to my car to test it out. The M3 DSC only has on/off…there isn’t a “half on” setting like the 335i has. As such you can get in a lot of trouble fast with DSC full off. MDM mode would be much welcomed. So we will be applying a 1M DME flash soon to prove the last piece out.
Section V – FAQ
TO BE DEVELOPED
Reads well @dyezak. I think you’re right that once people see this these parts will become more scarce.
Should we add a disclaimer that this is fairly advanced and shouldn’t be attempted by those without some experience with coding? This will have people with little to no experience attempting to do stuff that could and inevitably will brick cars....
Should we add a disclaimer that this is fairly advanced and shouldn’t be attempted by those without some experience with coding? This will have people with little to no experience attempting to do stuff that could and inevitably will brick cars....
@Stokes and I had a short conversation about the Z4 35is part that is mentioned. His car is not a Z4 and I could not find any mention of Z4 work throughout. I am wondering if this is just a simple mix-up and needs corrected or if indeed there was Z4 work that I still have missed somehow?
I wouldn't be too concerned about warning away rookie DIY folks. If they read that doc and it doesn't scare them then have at it. Nothing here is really new - people have been flashing modules for years. There will end up being a 3,000 post thread for a couple years with people getting and providing help.
Also, I would suggest explaining out the acronyms at least on first use. EGS, DWG, SZL, etc
I wouldn't be too concerned about warning away rookie DIY folks. If they read that doc and it doesn't scare them then have at it. Nothing here is really new - people have been flashing modules for years. There will end up being a 3,000 post thread for a couple years with people getting and providing help.
Also, I would suggest explaining out the acronyms at least on first use. EGS, DWG, SZL, etc
You’re probably right @NoQuarter.
Maybe then we should focus on the guide/s being watertight?
I think maybe we break it up into the sections as mentioned to make it more manageable. The guide is basic and needs a lot of work.
Maybe then we should focus on the guide/s being watertight?
I think maybe we break it up into the sections as mentioned to make it more manageable. The guide is basic and needs a lot of work.
That's a great option since it's so close to you. The rest of the pumpkin may or may not be salvagable though. Some of them look like they've been fished out of the ocean.
You own the forum that gave us the place to be able to discuss everything we needed to in private, you facilitated encouraged and enabled - There’s some credit due in that IMHO.
This forum also allowed it to take place fully here without needing to slap the forum name on to the final solution and try to take credit for all the work 
This forum also allowed it to take place fully here without needing to slap the forum name on to the final solution and try to take credit for all the work
Well said, my view also
This forum also allowed it to take place fully here without needing to slap the forum name on to the final solution and try to take credit for all the work
And it protected the community from causing themselves harm by trying to emulate our work while we were having problems. Shielding the curious from experiencing the negatives. And now releasing all the information for the public once the bugs have been worked out. Really a great move.
2011+ 335 has the same sensors as the M3. Same as the longitudinal dilly wacker.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if this reference came from somewhere else. I think there was a confusion on nomenclature - E89 (Z4) vs my E82 (1 series). The 135i N55 (2011+) seems to have a compatible Szl. But one is not enough to claim it in the write up. My guess is that they started standardizing on SZL manufacturing at some point.
This forum also allowed it to take place fully here without needing to slap the forum name on to the final solution and try to take credit for all the work
I'm a sucker for wasting lots of time and money on silly features, so I'll always accommodate passion projects like this. Lets call it the 'scenic route' to modding the N54.
On the way to get some fresh E85 last night I logged this for you guys. Proof the shifts are good
I'll work on a video soon.
I'll work on a video soon.
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